Cycle Stop Valves

Pump System Questions and Answers => Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls => Topic started by: jdawwggin25 on March 11, 2019, 07:34:08 AM

Title: Pressure Loss
Post by: jdawwggin25 on March 11, 2019, 07:34:08 AM
I have a Cycle Stop Valves PK1A Pside-Kick Pressure Tank Kit installed.  Installed it in the Spring of 2018 and it worked great until this March.  Atleast that I have noticed.  When I first installed the kit I had trouble getting it to actually hold constant at 50psi with the kitchen tap opened.  With the shower running it would hold constant pressure.  If running the kitchen sink wide open, (Probably around 1.5-2gpm) the pressure would hold but the pump would just cycle.  Originally the pump turned off at 60psi and cut in at 40 psi.  The tank was set to 38psi. 

Now what happens is the water will run and draw down the tank.  The pump does not cut in at 40 but lower now, maybe 38 or so. It cuts out at 55.  When taking a shower now you will lose almost all pressure down to a trickle before the pump cuts in.  It wont stay at 50 psi but keep slowing building pressure and then cuts out at 55.   

I checked the tank pressure but shutting off the power and opening the hose bib till pressure was released.  There was still water in the tank but the pressure read 34 or so. 

Everything on the pressure switch looks good, contacts are clean and operating well.  I did try and increase the cutoff pressure and when doing so the pump still cuts out around 55 but the gauge still showed pressure building to 80psi.  Not sure if the pressure gauge was malfunctioning. 

My thoughts are that the pump was cycling too much and maybe killing the pump.
I did not install a check valve prior to the CSV so maybe somehow losing prime.
The pressure in the tank is somehow higher than the cut-in pressure setting.  Not sure how that happened since no adjustments had been made prior.

Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: Cary Austin on March 11, 2019, 09:04:28 AM
If the tank has more air pressure than was put in it, and still has water in it after emptying with a faucet, then the bladder in the tank is probably broken.  Running a faucet of 1 GPM or less will cause the pump to cycle, but it will be a slow cycle.  Pressure switches usually don't change there setting unless they froze or got hot when thawing with a torch?  With the power off and the tank drained, make sure your gauge goes to zero.  All of this can be caused by a bad tank.  Take the tank off. If it still has water in it you need a new tank.
Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: jdawwggin25 on March 11, 2019, 09:14:24 AM
My pressure tank is mounted upside down on the bottom of the csv valve.  If I kill the power to the pump and drain with a hose spigot about 1 foot away I should go to Zero.  Is that Correct?

If it is the tank would the bladder really fail within 1 year?  Also would it be best to install the CSV on a larger tank if the problem is caused by the pump cycling too much on the actual tank itself.
Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: jdawwggin25 on March 11, 2019, 09:25:25 AM
I turned off the pump, opened the hose line and the pressure went down to Zero.  The Tank itself seems fine?

I tested the tank pressure while at zero on the pressure gauge but still hooked up.  Got a reading of 38psi. 
Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: jdawwggin25 on March 11, 2019, 09:47:49 AM
I tried messing with the pressure switch to see if that was the problem.  Again the pump just wont cut on until the pressure is below the tank pressure.   Still getting no flow until the tank pressure is below 35. 

I tried to increase the pressure switch setting by turning the large nut CW 1 1/2 turns.  Still same issues.  It cuts on below the intended pressure and cuts off around 55.  My understanding was that the pressure switch will react with little adjustment.  Is 1 1/2 turns not enough? 

Im questioning my pressure gauge.  I am not sure it is reading correctly.   After the pump switches off the gauge continues to climb up to 85psi.  Right now it shows 85psi on the pressure gauge.  That doesnt make sense to me since the pump should not be running after cut-off.   
Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: Cary Austin on March 11, 2019, 10:08:25 AM
Is this a submersible or and above ground jet pump?  The pressure switch on the side of a jet pump should be bypassed and you should be using an additional pressure switch that comes with the PK1A kits.  If you are adjusting the right pressure switch it should have increased the on and off pressures by turning the large screw.  If you are adjusting the correct pressure switch there maybe something wrong with the switch.  When a gauge goes to zero it is usually still good.  Can you post a picture?
Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: jdawwggin25 on March 11, 2019, 10:17:08 AM
The well is A few hundred feet from our house. The pump I believe is a submersible jet pump. The line comes in under our crawl space and went to a 20 gallon tank with the pressure switch mounted there. I eliminated that whole section and tied the well line into the kit I purchased using the supplied pressure switch. I have not gone out front to pull the cover on the well to see what our setup is there. But from what I remember in the house notes was that it was a submersible pump.

I follow the instructions on the back of the pressure switch cover which said to turn counter-clockwise on the big nut to increase on off cut in pressure. Again I went only one and a half turns but it didn't seem to make a difference
Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: Cary Austin on March 11, 2019, 10:44:31 AM
Clock-wise or righty-tighty to increase the pressure setting of the pressure switch.  Don't mess with the small adjustment screw, just the big one.  The pressure switch should turn the pump on at about 40, off at about 60, and the CSV should hold about 50 constant with a shower running or anything that uses 2GPM or more.
Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: jdawwggin25 on March 11, 2019, 11:50:54 AM
For some reason my picture files are too large to post.  Here is where I am at right now.

I increased the pressure switch to where it turns on around 42 psi and off around 64 psi.  I no longer am losing pressure in the tank which is set around 38psi. 

Here is the confusing parts now.

My pressure gauge at the CSV and pressure switch reads 82 psi and the pump turned off when it reached 64 psi.
I have an internal pressure gauge on the cold side my tankless hot water heater which is reading around 54psi.

When I run 1 shower wide open and the kitchen faucet wide open it keeps pressure fine.  However the pump never stays around 50 to 52psi running.  It always goes past the CSV and shuts off after about 1 min.  I have the stem completely backed out on the CSV and it just wont keep a pressure where the pump will stay running.  It will cycle just like a normal well tank. 

At this point is the pump to strong for this unit or do I need to increase the tank size.  I purchased the CSV kit so that we can hold pressure since we would get crazy swings with the old setup. 
I remember after installing last Spring that I could never keep the valve set to hold at 50psi which makes me think something may be wrong with it?

Any thoughts.  I dont like my house holding pressure around 82 psi which I dont think it really is.  However if it is I do not want that high of pressure on CPVC.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Pressure Loss
Post by: Cary Austin on March 11, 2019, 01:51:31 PM
The house pressure cannot be getting to 80 if the pump shuts off at 64.  It sounds like you have a pipe bypassing the CSV.  With the bolt all the way backed out the house pressure should not be any higher than 15 PSI.

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