Topics

1

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Pressure Problems Fixed - Not the CSV or Pump

« on: June 24, 2018, 09:26:00 PM »

Follow-UP for my post on CSV, Cycle Sensor and Tuning Minimal Run Time

My uncle and I ran various tests on my system trying to determine why the CSV and new pump were not providing constant pressure, much less adequate pressure when running 6-8gpm demand for my GSHP.  When running my GSHP using my aunt’s system, I got 40psi in the house but when using my new pump/CSV @60psi, I only got 25psi in the house.  We came to the conclusion that somehow with my pump, either I had an obstruction in my lines or that my house was being fed through a 3/4" supply line.  So I started digging at the gate valve that I used to turn on the (backup) system from my aunt’s house to mine.

1.)  The shutoff valve I thought was to my aunt's system - actually shut off the 1-1/4” lines from both my system and hers.
2.)  When both systems were shut off, somewhere within the 400' of 1-1/4 piping around my house and yard - a  ¾”  pipe fed back into the 1-1/4 line, just before the junction that supplies my house via two(2) ¾” lines. 

With this discovery (and a lot of digging) and doing some repair and plumbing changes - I now have more or less constant pressure into the house even when running my GSHP.   I now have my CSV set to 55psi pressure switch @50/70psi and I am getting 50psi in the house while running my GSHP. I only see 1 or 2 psi drop when turning on additional faucets or showers. 
 
Note – Before I moved into the house,  ¾” water supply lines were installed in 1978 and then new 1-1/4” lines were installed in 1994 when the well was dug.  I added an additional ¾” line to the house in 2012 of the 1-1/4 line after the shutoff.  I am now in the process of replacing the 3/4" lines with a 1-1/4” lines all the way into my household distribution closet (even if now I am getting great pressure and flow).  With monitoring, I can attest that the pump is only cycling about 50 times a day (due to GSHP cooling running almost continually during the heat) instead of an estimated 400 a day previously.

I do think I will be adding an additional 10 gallon psi-kick for various reasons, including the fast fill time (30-40 seconds) after flusing a toilet when the GSHP isn't running.

Just want to add, the Cary and his staff provided great support in helping me implement their products and then later to address my problems. I will be installing CycleStop products on my (backup) aunts pump and supply system later this summer.

2

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / CSV, Cycle Sensor and Tuning Minimal Run Time

« on: June 12, 2018, 12:45:42 PM »

Just installed new cycle sensor and figure I have a problem with the rate the pressure tank fills, so far the best I can get is 20 to 25 seconds when shutting off demand to pump shutting off.  Should I get an additional storage tank and/or are there adjustments I can make to prolong the time the pump runs after demand is shut off.  Seriously, when a toilet is flushed - the pump kicks in and only runs about 1/2 minute - probably due to the size pump.  If I bump up the CSV, the pressure tank fills even faster.   If I drop the CSV, then it starts to impact the pressure I would like to otherwise have.

System:  CSV1A @48psi at the well head (w/3/4" spigot opened fully).   
2HP Franklin Motor w/ 20GPM Sta-rite Pump.   
10 gallon (PSIkick) pressure tank - @40psi when empty. 
Pressure Switch set to 42/62. 
With minimal GPM (pump running), I have about a 4psi drop from the pump to the household.
Wen running about 7-8GPM through my GSHP (geoThermal) I have 32psi at the house and 50psi at the pressure switch.

CSV is set to 65PSI at 2GPM.  Pressure switch is 50/70.   Tank PSI is 48

3

Reviews / CSV Money Pit - NOT

« on: June 06, 2018, 10:34:22 AM »

I thought I'd post a response conversation from the "Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog" from my post on "New Motor - High Amp Draw".  As Cary aka ValveMan continually states (I paraphrase):  many professionals and users do not understand CSV.  My research and results show that CSVs work.  CSVs may or not be the most cost effective when counting pennies, but that's it.  The following is the what and why for my recommendation for Cycle Stop Valve products:

Good luck at keeping your submersible pump cool at low flow rate demands like your house will use most of the time. Keep an eye I on your toilet handles for them sticking. As this would crate enough gpm to keep the submersible pump running the entire time and cause overheating pump failure. You will find pump impeller shavings in your screens inside your house or a whole house filter. Invest in buying a light to show you when your submersible pump is pumping water when you think there is no water demand.
How do you expect to be energy efficient with a CSV that keeps your pump running continuously as long as 1gpm or more is being used? It also has to run an extra minute to kick off pressure everytime your done using water and take longer than a minute to use it again.

My response  (Short version - I love my CSV):

I agree with you on low flow rate cycling the pump for minor things such as flushes. I am reworking my use of a drip system that was cycling my pump every 10 minutes (even with a CSV). Also your observation about pump shavings in a filter - that was what I found in my screen filter before my pump failed. Before my pump failed I knew nothing, moinitored nothing, maintained very little and paid the price (note: the pump was 10 years old but only used heavily about the last 4 years).

Replacing my pump has been a learning experience and I may not have made the best choice by replacing the components by using the same as what I already had. The pump/motor has been installed and now my course of action is to make them last the longest possible. Installing various products from Cycle Stop Valves cost me about the same as labor cost to pull and replace the motor/pump ($650) and only a bit less than the new submersible pump, motor and control box ($900). I have the CSV1A, Flow Inducer, 10 gal tank and now a Cycle Sensor.

Out here in SE Arizona, it gets hot and stays hot. My GSHP (5 ton OpenLoop Heat Pump HVAC) runs almost continually - non-stop from 9am to 9pm - and now runs with NO cycling during the day and about 3 times an hour at night when it kicks in. On the old system, it appears I was cycling every 5 minutes when cooling, heating or not. Now I am cycling only 40 to 50 times per day.

It appears the HVAC and Pump together pull about 6500 watts (27amps) per Hour to cool a 3600 fairly well insulated house to 76degrees. Power to cool yesterday was about 100 KWH (and it was somewhat cloudy and cool at 100 degrees). Fortunately about 2/3s of this is covered by my 10KW Solar. The other KWHs are (now still) at a relatively low 10 cents per KWH from the electric co-op. My electric bill in the summer/winter average about $100 a month and I bank credits in spring and fall.

Choices have been made. Protecting that investment is paramount. I am now exploring various GeoThermal forums to better understand my HVAC for efficiency and to prolong its life. Working somewhat blind, I don't want to pump the well dry and I am still trying to find the heat exchanger flow rate for the best efficiency within my well's capacity.

I like what I see with the CSV and I plan on adding one to my aunts system next door soon. She has a Air Cooled Heat Pump and her electric bill is $300+ a month for a small under insulated house. Her main pump use is for hose watering plants and trees and I'm pretty sure a CSV will protect her pump - which is a backup for my system. Oh did I note - now my showers are a blessing with constant pressure and NO pressure cycling and temperature fluctuations.