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Messages - Cary Austin

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1
Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Need Advice on Lake Water System
« on: July 28, 2020, 03:58:13 PM »
It sounds like the adjustment bolt on the CSV is tightened too much.  As long as you are using more than 1 GPM the pump should not cycle at all.  If using less than 1 GPM it should cycle slowly, not fast, like on for 2 minutes and off for 2 minutes, even with the 4.5 gallon tank.

Those Gator pumps don't usually build enough pressure to work with even a 30/50 pressure switch.  With the switch at 20/40 the CSV should hold 30 PSI while using as little as 2 GPM.

2
Reviews / Re: CSV Control While Water Tower being serviced
« on: July 27, 2020, 12:38:37 PM »
The following is an email I got from a guy who paints and repairs water towers.  He normally uses pressure relief valves on fire hydrants and lets the excess water run down the street while he is working on the towers.  He had calculated that they would waste $40,000.00 worth of water while he painted the tower in Hooks, TX.  He found us on the Internet.  I guaranteed it to work so he tried it.  This system does not even have a little 80 gallon tank.  The CSV’s on those two pumps just feed the right amount of water to the city.  Those pumps with the CSV’s can deliver as little as 5 GPM or as much as 1600 GPM to the city at constant pressure, without any kind of water tower or tank.

Re;  Hooks, Texas
Cary, the valves are working perfectly.  They had a major water leak yesterday and the valves performed as planned.  They have not had any complaints about water pressure at all.  I wish I would have known about these years ago. The city personal and the engineers are very impressed.  I have also included pics of the instillation.
Thanks,

Carey Gould

PROTECTIVE LININGS & COATINGS, INC.
15156 Country Place
Alexander, Arkansas 72002

3
Reviews / Re: CSV Control While Water Tower being serviced
« on: July 27, 2020, 12:37:18 PM »
Credit: HOOKS, TX Coating removal, sandblasting, and applying primer begin a 1970s tank repair.
In this first story on water tower refurbishment, the author covers the steps a town took to prepare the water tower for refurbishment and the considerations the town faced with the project.  In Part 2 of this article, we’ll look at the application of high tech coatings to ensure a long service life.
What do you do when you’re a one-water-tower town, struggling on a shoestring budget and a routine inspection by state officials hands you a report card of multiple, and expensive, repair violations. You’ve got a water tower refurbishment project on your hands.
Donald Buchanan, town administrator of Hooks, TX, a community of about 4,000 located fifteen miles west of Texarkana on the Arkansas border in northeast Texas, describes his dilemma.
“We have a water tower inspection every year and we got handed a list of things to fix. Fortunately, we had passed a bond issue to do water and street repairs, but the problem with the water tower was a big one.”
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Buchanan says it’s likely that “nobody had been inside the water tower since the day it was built in 1968,” but that now, there were cracks and deterioration and the needed repairs would cost the town a hefty bill in citations if left undone.
“Since we only have one water tower, we had to figure out how to deliver water to our people, and still fix the water tower. We can’t turn off water for the three to six months that we needed to do the repairs. The one idea was to put a pump on and then divert the water to a tank, but have it attached to a fire hydrant where a pop-off valve would release pressure when it got too high.”
But this was not a good solution, Buchanan says, “because if we did that, we would lose about $30,000 of water. We have to buy our water from Texarkana and can’t afford to waste it.”
Buchanan says their engineer then heard about what is called a cycle-stop valve, from Russell Hicks of Induron Protective Lining and Coatings, the company whose coatings allowed for a very successful water tower repair. Hicks explains the scenario the town faced at the outset.
“Small town funds are tight and when you take a tank out of service to rehab, it’s a big production.”
Hicks says the town had last rehabbed the 300,000 gallon pedesphere tank back in the 1970s so a major facelift was in order.
How to Keep the Water On
“What we were going to do involved a complete removal of all coatings, then blast it to white metal on the outside, and then blast the inside as well. Then, coat the inside and outside with primer and finish coats. But, before we did anything we had to figure out how to divert the water and provide service. I had run across this variable-frequency device (VFD) called a cycle-stop valve which actually works so well you don’t even need a water tower.”
Hicks says he brought the innovative technology to Kiron Browning of A.L. Franks Engineering who was already working on the project, and Browning introduced the idea to Buchanan and his staff. Beyond the concern for continuous public drinking water supply, the town and engineers also required that there would be enough water for fire suppression during the rehab time. Hicks describes why the cycle-stop valves were the perfect solution to ensure all water needs would be met.
“I explained that typically, when you use other VFDs to supply water to the end-user without the use of gravity—like in a water tower—these devices can’t manage pressure changes that well, and this can cause water hammer, and blow out pipes. This cycle-stop valve is a continuously regulating device that prevents this. So we installed two of them for the aboveground water holding tank. This diverting process not only saved water, but worked so well nobody in the town knew there was anything different going on with their water delivery.”
Hicks says these valves, which continuously regulate pressure and amperage, were under $11,000 to purchase and install. They not only allowed work to begin, but saved hundreds of thousands of gallons of water and up to $40,000 in water waste costs.
In Part 2 of this article on water tower refurbishment, we’ll look at the application of high tech coatings to ensure a long service life.

4
Applications / Re: Pumping from a Cistern
« on: July 25, 2020, 08:02:50 PM »
That pump can do a max dead of 240', which is about 103 psi.  2.31 feet equals 1 psi.

5
Applications / Re: Pumping from a Cistern
« on: July 21, 2020, 11:52:18 AM »
You are figuring correctly.  But 66 PSI max is just too close to work with a 40/60 switch.  Yes it would work fine at 30/50, but I don't think you will like the pressure.  I didn't know that other pump was available, but yes because of your 53' rise in elevation that pump would be better and work fine at 40/60.

6
Applications / Re: Pumping from a Cistern
« on: July 20, 2020, 03:57:27 PM »
Hi, I’m new to the forum after lurking for some time.  I spoke with someone very helpful in your office last week – Sam – but have a few follow-up questions I wanted to post and thought it might prove useful to others who may encounter a similar situation.  After a couple of failed attempts with low producing wells, I am having a spring developed that produces ~7gpm.  This spring will be feeding a 1200-gallon cistern buried a few feet below the source of the spring.  I purchased a Hallmark Industries MA0414X-7A [230V 2-wire] submersible pump.  Pump will be mounted in a 4” flow inducer sleeve and mounted horizontally on top of two 4” PVC pipes as I’ve seen pictured elsewhere here on your forum.

This set-up, initially, will be supplying a single-story home located ~70 feet above the cistern, with a horizontal distance of [I’m guessing] 350 feet.  The person developing the spring and installing the tank is burying 1½” PVC and 10-3 wire.  I could’ve used 10-2 but I didn’t know at the time what pump I would be using.  I want to use the PK1A Pressure Tank Kit with the 10-gallon tank, 40-60 pressure switch, with the CSV setting of 50psi.  The pressure tank and CSV will be located at the house, and not at the cistern so that I can weather/critter-proof them. 

Most of the discussions posted here relate to using wells as the water supply, so I’m not sure how things like maximum head and backpressure come into play when pumping from a cistern.  Could you comment on this set up?   That pump builds a max head of 207' or 89 PSI.  You are going to lose 30 PSI of that in the 70' of elevation from the cistern to the house.  That means you will only have 59 PSI available at the house.  That won't work with a 40/60 switch.  You can just barely do a 30/50 switch setting with that pressure.  With 70' of elevation after the cistern it is like having a 70' deep well, and you need a smaller GPM series pump that can produce more pressure.  Those pumps work fine when the cistern is at house level.

Also, I’ll need to install a 1¼” nipple, check valve, and 90* elbow on the pump, and I’m curious what you used in your example picture [the one with the horizontal installation] – brass, stainless, galvanized?  Any of those will work. Make sure to use a metal, spring loaded, check valve and if you use any galvanized nipples or fittings be sure and wrap them completely with electric tape.


On the flow inducer sleeve, would 4” pipe give enough flow around the motor for cooling?  My pump is listed as having a max diameter of 3.8”, but I think that includes the bump out for the wiring.  Is SDR35 safe for drinking water or would you use PVC in that case?  PVC pipe is PVC pipe no matter if labeled for drinking water or not.  Yes that should include the cable guard, but even so will have plenty or room for over 25 GPM flow.

Do you use or recommend anything to center the pump in the sleeve, such as bolts spaced at 120*?  Anything else I should be concerned about? Wont hurt to just lay the pump in the sleeve.  No centering is needed.

Thanks in advance,

MikeInTN   

7
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Short Term Vacation Rental 20 people
« on: July 06, 2020, 06:57:35 AM »
A 30 gallon tank should give you 6-8 gallons of water before the pump comes on.  You can check that with a bucket test.  You can also check the air charge and see if any water comes out the air Schrader valve.  But yes it sounds like you need a new tank.  Water worker is a good brand for a tank in the 20 gallon size.

8
Valve Tech / Re: CSV1A Installation question
« on: June 29, 2020, 07:12:22 AM »
Yes the CSV1A is dual threaded with 1" female and 1 1/4" male threads on both ends.

9
Higher than 40/60 pressure and/or multiple houses or people in the house I recommend the 10 gallon tank.  Higher pressures cause pressure tanks to hold less water.  But you could probably be fine with the 4.5 gallon tank since you don't have a lot of people using water.

10
Valve Tech / Re: CSV1A Installation question
« on: June 28, 2020, 04:55:26 PM »
A 10 GPM, 1HP pump can build 164 PSI.  As long as your poly pipe is rated for 160# or better, as most pipe is, it will be good.  You have plenty of pump to run 40/60 is you want better pressure, and the 4.5 gallon tank is plenty for a normal single house.

The CSV usually goes in place of the check valve that needs to be removed as you have said.  But replacing the bad tank with the PK1A kit you might want to elbow up and mount everything a little higher on the wall and then elbow back down to the pipe.

11
A lot of people are using that 1HP, 33 GPM pump because of such a good price.  It is a little overkill, but over-sized pumps are what a CSV is made to fix.  The CSV1A as comes in the PK1A kit will make that pump work from 1 GPM to about 15-30 GPM.  You may never use 25 GPM, which is OK, because the CSV will make that big pump work like a small pump or large pump as needed. 

That pump has a max head of 207', which is 89 PSI.  You will lose 3-5 PSI of that lifting from 10' or so.  With a pump that has a max pressure of say 85 PSI, I would not run the pressure switch any higher than 55/75, and 50/70 would be better.  You need at least 10 PSI difference between pump max pressure and pressure switch shut off point.  A 3/4HP 0r 1/2HP, in a 10 GPM series would be closer to the size you need, but they are several times more expensive than the 1HP, 33GPM.  Just let the CSV size the 1HP pump as needed.

12
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Short Term Vacation Rental 20 people
« on: June 28, 2020, 04:40:24 PM »
If you have a drip or a leak of more than 1 GPM the CSV will just keep the pump running and size of tank would not matter.  But with leaks of less than 1 GPM and times when so many people are using the water, a PK1ALT would be best.  The LT is for Less Tank, as it would be best to pick up a 20 gallon size tank locally to save on freight.  A Water Worker brand tank in about a 20 gallon size is good.   A 20 gallon tank only holds 5 gallons of water, the same way an 80 gallon tank only holds 20 gallons of water.  With the CSV the tank is more a mechanical timer than for water storage.  Your water comes from the well and pump, not the tank.  With a 40/60 switch, CSV set for 50 PSI, and a tank that holds 5 gallons of water, the pump will run for 2.5 minutes to refill the tank from 50 to 60 before shutting off.  It doesn't start this 2.5 minute tank fill timer until the toilet is full, the showers are off, and no one is using water.  With several people in the house, someone will use water within this 2.5 minute time, the pump does not shut off, and the timer starts again.  It is very common for the CSV to make the pump run continuously 30 minutes to 2 hours, during times when people are home getting ready for school, work, or later to bed.  This makes the pump only cycle once when it would normally cycle many times, even with a large pressure tank.

You will lose a little pressure through the filter and distance to the fixtures, so start with at least 40/60 and the CSV1A set to 50 PSI in the PK1AKT kit.  Also make sure there are no hydrants or water lines teed off prior to the PK1A kit.

13
Looks really good!  Let us know what you think after some time.  But the real test will be over the holidays for the next 20-30 years.  :)

14
Drip systems and small flow irrigation are exactly the kind of thing a CSV is made to do and protect your pump in the process.  But the CSV must be installed prior to the hydrant or tee the water is being used from to function properly.

15
Yes a CSV like in the PK1A kit would work fine with either of those pumps.  I prefer the Goulds over the Red Lion.  The Goulds J7S would be better than a 1/2 HP.  The CSV will make it work like a smaller pump when needed, but can't increase the pumps output, so starting with the larger pump is best. That size is fine to stay with 115V if you like.

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