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Messages - Cary Austin

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Applications / Re: My setup is a bit different
« on: May 14, 2020, 06:45:16 AM »
That is a  very good question.  You can still leave the CSV set for 50 PSI and use a 40/60 switch setting.  The CSV will hold 50 PSI constant as long as the pump can do that as well.  But when demand increases and the pressure drops below 50 PSI, the CSV just turns into a piece of pipe and does nothing. You can still get your 9 GPM, but the pressure will only be 40 PSI as that is all the pump can do.

And yes a larger pump would keep the pressure up.  You can install a pump as large as you think you need, and the CSV will make it act like a smaller pump when smaller amounts of water are being used.  But you must have a pump large enough for peak demands as the CSV cannot make the pump act larger than it is.

Applications / Re: My setup is a bit different
« on: May 13, 2020, 03:48:56 PM »
Wow!  You have gotten more out of an MQ type pumps than most people.  But you are on borrowed time now.   I think the MQ has a built in check valve?  If not it must have an external one. 

Back pressure from a CSV would only be seen in the pipe between the pump and the CSV, not on the suction line.  Plus a JP07 can only build 76 PSI max, which would be the back pressure on the 6" long nipple between the pump and the CSV. 

Valve Tech / Re: CSV1A leaking at screw on top of spring cage
« on: May 10, 2020, 07:20:31 AM »
Not really.  It tightens against the rubber diaphragm, so just enough to keep it from leaking.

I sent you a private message with Larry's phone number.

We help people with systems like this all over the world.  The CSV system is so simple I can talk people through it and never leave my office. That being said we have a salesman in Tifton, GA, who would be glad to help if needed.

The jockey pump maybe large enough to do what you need.  A 5HP or larger pump will do 50-100 GPM at the pressure you need.  But if either of the old 25HP turbines are still good, we can utilize them if you want as well.

Usually the biggest part of a job like this is getting rid of all the stuff you don't need or doesn't work.  All you need is a Cycle Stop Valve on the discharge of the pump or pumps you want to use.  Then connect those lines to the irrigation lines.  At the beginning of the irrigation line place a tee.  From that tee we connect a little 86 gallon size pressure tank and a pressure switch or switches if more than one pump.  Your done.  Look in the Pictures and Cad drawings section for something with two turbines and a jockey. 

Those Golf course head require like a 100 PSI so they shoot a long ways and they don't have heads in the way of the golfers.  You can cut the cost of irrigation ih half by placing heads closer together and using 50-60 PSI instead.

Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Submersible in a Cistern
« on: May 05, 2020, 11:33:51 AM »
The flow inducer or shroud needs to be installed on the pump, then you can cradle it with a couple more pieces of PVC pipe like this.

Frequently Asked Questions / Submersible in a Cistern
« on: May 05, 2020, 07:24:36 AM »
Installing a shroud or flow inducer and using a submersible in a cistern to boost water to the house.

Open Loop Geothermal Heat Pump / Re: Open Loop Geothermal + Irrigation
« on: April 23, 2020, 11:38:42 AM »
The idea of two pumps is so the well pump can be much smaller for the Geo at lower pressure. Instead of a 1HP pump feeding the Geo and house at high pressure, a 1/2HP pump feeds the Geo and the 1/2HP booster pump only comes on when the house uses water, as the house needs more pressure tan the Geo. You can have as many different pressures coming off the 1HP pump as you like, but it is still going to pull twice the load of a 1/2HP pump.

Ok I did the math on that pump.  As long as you are pumping at least 5.5 GPM there cannot be more than 200 PSI on your pipe.  When pumping directly into a cistern if the water level is less than 250' that pump wants to produce 7-8 GPM.  The best you can do is a 6 GPM Dole valve.  Dole valves have a rubber disc that expands into the 6 GPM orifice when the pressure is high and retracts when the pressure is low.  This helps the Dole valve self regulate the 6 GPM regardless of the water level in the well.  Then you don't need the complication of the bypass you are thinking of. 

Using the Cycle Sensor most wells can be pumped down repeatedly many times before the float switch hits the full level in the cistern.  If the sediment gets stirred up when the water level drops to the pump, you can set the amperage on the Cycle Sensor to shut the pump off before the well pumps dry.  As the water level in the well drops the amps on the Cycle Sensor will drop and you can set the Under Current cut off to shut the pump off at a certain water level if needed.

Correct you would not be able to restrict the flow from the well pump without causing high pressure in the water line.  But if the pump will run for at least a minute or two at full tilt you don't need to restrict the flow.  Just use a Cycle Sensor that knows when the pump is running dry and shuts the pump off.  The Cycle Sensor has a built in restart timer.  After the pump is shut off from running dry, the Cycle Sensor can be set to restart the pump from 1 minute to 5 hours later.  Just let the well recover long enough for the pump to run at least a minute at full tilt when it comes on.  If it won't run for a minute you can restrict that pump to 5 GPM or so and not build more pressure than the pipe can take.  I can look up the pump curve and tell you the minimum you can run if you would like?

You might consider using a cistern storage tank and a booster pump.  The storage tank will store water in times where the well is not supplying much water.  The booster pump could use a CSV to deliver as much water at a strong constant pressure to the house.  Supply and pressure would be much better this way  and it takes a lot of wear and tear off the hard to replace well pump.

You don't have to regulate amperage for a standard full speed pump.  The amperage will naturally self regulate on any pump as the flow of water is reduced.  it is not the 40/60 pressure switch that causes the amperage to decrease but rather the restriction of flow from the CSV.  Reducing the flow with a simple valve of any kind will reduce the amp draw of the motor almost exactly as much as varying the pump speed.  This is just a natural phenomenon of any pump and people who sell VFD's just don't understand how pumps work.  Actually I think many do understand and are just letting the wool stay pulled over your eyes so they can sell you and expensive and short lived VFD.

Starting a pump against a closed or almost closed valve as with a CSV also gives a mechanical soft start because of the same natural function of a centrifugal impeller as described.  When starting against a closed valve the amplitude and duration of the starting current is greatly reduced.

Your problem is you have a pump designed for 600 plus feet of lift and it is only 100' to water.  A 10 GPM, 1HP would be a much better pump as long as the water level doesn't get deeper than about 200'.  Back pressure is a concern in situations like this, and is something we always check when using a CSV.  Yes with the 5GS10 and static at 100' there will be 290 PSI on the pipe which is too much.  With a 10 GPM pump end on that 1HP motor the back pressure before the CSV would only be 121 PSI and the pressure on the bottom section of pipe would only be 164 PSI. 

A water level of 100' is not even deep enough to keep a 5GS10 pump from upthrusting.  Wrong pump for such a shallow water level and it builds more pressure than the pipe and CSV can handle.  Sorry.  If you ever replace the pump with one more suited for that depth a CSV would then be a good option.

Those CSV125 valves that go in the well come in 40,50, or 60 PSI.  60 PSI is the most common to put down the well.  Just means you need to turn the pressure switch up to 50/70 to make it work.  Then tightening the adjustment bolt a few rounds on the above ground CSV1A wiil make it work like a piece of pipe, and the CSV125 in the well will be doing all the work.

I am guessing they put a 60 PSI valve in the well.  With your 40/60 switch the pump shuts off before that CSV can work.  Tighten the big screw in the pressure switch until the pump shuts off at 70 instead of 60.  Then tighten the bolt on the CSV in the closet 3-4 rounds to the right and try it again.

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