Author Topic: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?  (Read 5177 times)

Odysseus

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My lawn irrigation system consists of a 10 year old: 82 gal (equivalent) air bladder tank and a 1/2hp booster pump

The booster pump lifts water about 8-10' above the surface (from about 5' below the surface) of a long skinny pond (dammed up creek) right beside our house in the hill country of Texas (33" of rain per year average). The run to the pump from the source point is about 40'.

We only water grass immediately beside the house (lawn behind house and on each side, but not front). The watering system consists of 6 sprinklers. These go on during the dark morning hours every fourth day for four hours, and they are rotated so that two are not on together. On the days that there are two sprinklers operating, they go on consecutively.

We have a similar system for our domestic use system (rainwater only, no well) and I replaced the tank a year ago when it filled up.

The irrigation pump was beginning to cycle often and I thought that the tank was going out (and it probably is near, if not at, the end of its life). This afternoon I drained the system and checked the pressure. It was less than 10 lbs (so either the valve or the bladder is leaking). I added air to bring it up to 38 pounds, turned it back on. When it went off, I turned on a sprinkler.

The pump is off for about 90 seconds, pressure drops to 40, then the pump turns on and runs for around 130 seconds until it cuts off. I note that it is cutting off about 53 lbs of pressure instead of 60, so the pump may be dodgy too. (Or needs adjusting?)

So I can either replace the tank (and maybe the pump at the same time), or

I can replace it with a cycle stop valve and small tank.

Since the system is on continuously for either 4 or 8 hours each day, it seems like the latter would be a good choice. Which do you think is the better option of the two?

Also since it is pond water, with all the algae, plant and animal life, and very muddy water, I am wondering how this would affect a cycle stop valve system?

I suppose the same considerations apply to my current air bladder tank and it has lasted 10 years, so maybe it is a non-issue, but would it be a good idea to put some sort of filter in front of the pump and cycle stop valve.

Finally the two pumps and tanks, plus 2 20" filters and a U/V sterilizer are all crammed into a very small pump house and I would love to get shed of one of the two large tanks to gain a bit more free space.

What thoughts do you have? Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 07:00:54 AM by Odysseus »

Cary Austin

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Re: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2014, 07:52:06 AM »
The plastic CSV’s don’t handle muddy water, algae, plant, or animal life very well.  But the CSV1A is designed to pump from lakes, rivers, and ponds.  The CSV1A is the valve that comes with the Pside-Kick kit for $375.00, which includes a new 4.5 gallon size pressure tank, pressure switch, gauge, relief valve, etc.

A pump cycle every 3.5 minutes as you describe is 17 cycles per hour or 411 cycles per day.  That will change to no cycling when using a CSV.  Especially in your case the CSV and small tank is much better than a room full of big tanks.

Odysseus

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Re: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2014, 09:25:53 AM »
Thanks Cary,

My pump is a Flint & Walling EK05S 1/2 hp Economy Shallow Well Jet Pump. (The current production model seems to have the ejector housing built in whereas mine, now 10 years old, has a separate bolt on ejector. Otherwise I suspect it is the same pump)

It is wired for 110V. Is the CSV1A compatible?

Does the CSV1A make it not necessary to have a filter in front?

BTW, I am no plumber nor electrician, but can generally figure out how to repair things, otherwise when to call in someone with experience.

Aside from wiring, is this a replacement that a person with common sense and willingness to try can do? I can handle pvc fittings*.

As to wiring, I also expect that this is something that I can do. (I know where the circuit breaker is, how to test for hot leads, and can handle a screwdriver OK). I know that the common wisdom is to call in an electrician, but would you expect that this is also something I can manage?

Do you recommend wallmount over mounting directly to the pump. Would the latter. with the pump directly (or maybe on a 2X12) on the floor would give me more room and greater servicing ease? I thing it might be better for saving space.

* One thing I noticed when I replaced the tank last year is that the PVC tubes have swollen slightly over the 10 years of their life. This made it difficult to get the new PVC connectors onto the old pipe. Is there a technique for easing this (maybe warming the connector to make it more flexible? And if so, any guidance on this?)

Thanks again.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 09:39:28 AM by Odysseus »

Cary Austin

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Re: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 12:19:49 PM »
The CSV doesn't care what voltage you using.  Yes the CSV1A will work with that pump.  The CSV1A is designed to handle some debris, so doesn't need filter.  You can do it.  The only electrical is switching pressure switches. 

PVC tubes shouldn't swollen.  They must have gotten hot.

Mount the Pside-Kick on the pump or on the wall, whichever is best for you.

Odysseus

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Re: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 04:53:59 PM »
Cary, I am ready to order but just have one more questions before placing.

The hose is used on almost a daily basis by my wife to water plants, areas where new grass has been planted, etc using a nozzle. She might turn in on and off several times in the course of say 30 mins. Is this going to put a strain on anything? If so, would a larger tank be helpful? If so what other sizes area available and what would you recommend?

Just curious. Would a flow (# of gallons) meter downstream from the pump create any issue? It would be helpful to know how much water I am actually putting down.

Thanks again.

Just thought of something. It would be really convenient to have a flexible substitute for PVC to use in those tight places. Is there any such thing?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 04:56:08 PM by Odysseus »

Cary Austin

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Re: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2014, 05:07:48 PM »
You don't need a larger tank.  You can turn the hose on and off as much as you want.

A flow meter can be installed before or after the CSV.

They make flexible PVC called SpaFlex.  Poly pipe also works well.  We also use a red rubber hose that is good to 200 PSI.

Odysseus

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Re: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 11:36:07 AM »
Thanks, order has been placed.

Looking at the installation diagram, it appears that the inlet is on the left side of the CSV and outlet on the right. Correct?

If so, is there a practical way to reverse the flow (more convenient for me for connecting)? I.e., can the valve simply be reversed or does that create problems for mounting  pressure pressure gauge,, etc Edit: As I study the diagrams, I think I see that the CSV is the same on both sides, in which case it is "reversible". Correct?

Do I understand correctly that the existing pressure switch on the pump will be removed and the wires to the pump from the new pressure switch on the CSV will go directly to the pump?

What gauge wires are specified for that run (mine is a 120V system)?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 12:46:56 PM by Odysseus »

Cary Austin

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Re: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2014, 07:17:21 AM »
Just make sure the flow direction arrow is facing the right way and you can install the CSV in any direction.

Yes you need to use the pressure switch that is mounted on or after the CSV and wire around or remove the switch that is on the side of the motor.

If you are not running very far, #12 wire is all you need.

Ulcelve

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Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2019, 09:57:28 AM »
Oh, I see it now, thats the whole valve. Anyone have a link to the valve cores for both sides?


Sorry for the thread jack

Cary Austin

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Re: Replace air bladder tank or switch to cycle stop valve system?
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2019, 11:39:03 AM »
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