Cycle Stop Valves

Pump System Questions and Answers => Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls => Topic started by: Brandymax on June 24, 2012, 09:53:03 AM

Title: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 24, 2012, 09:53:03 AM
Hello, Looking to install Valve, have question 8)

The well I have is roughly 288 deep
The pump model is ( from literature my dad left for me) Sta-rite 7sp4E02HL-04, but he left a sticker on the pressure tank says Franklin Electric, Model 2445089003.... I did some searching on the Sta-rite, the unit is 12 yrs old and I cant seem to find any info on it.
The pressure tank is Pro Source PS42T-T02.

I want to get as much Pressure out of the system as I can with out causing any issues with appliances, pipes bursting etc.  and keep the pressure constant and save abuse on the pump...

Hope this is enough info, if not let me know

Robert
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 24, 2012, 05:43:18 PM
With that pump you should be able to turn the pressure switch up as high as you want.  The problem with running the pressure switch at 50/70 or even 60/80 instead of 40/60, is that the higher the pressure, the less water the tank holds, and the more the pump will cycle.

Install a CSV1A before the pressure tank and set it 5 PSI lower than the shut off of the pressure switch.  50/70 switch setting, 65 PSI setting for the CSV.  This way you can have 65 PSI constant in the house without the pump cycling.   That size tank is plenty large to use with a CSV, and you can use an even smaller tank if you ever need to replace it.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 25, 2012, 09:59:40 AM
Thanks for the fast reply Cary  8)

I just wanted to make sure my existing equipment was adequate for the increase in pressure. Right now its 20/40. 20 is like it drips out of the faucet until the pump recoups when multiple faucets etc being used.
If I boost it up to 60/40 and hold 55 constant pressure it will be like night and day I am sure. If not then I will increase , and if smaller tank will make it better off, then I will get a new tank :)
My dad was the plumber in the family, I listen to some he said but I look back now and wish I had listen to all he said...LOL

Thanks for your help.... I might need more when it comes to installing  :o

Robert
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 25, 2012, 01:02:54 PM
55 PSI constant will make a big difference.  Just let us know if we can help.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 25, 2012, 07:08:45 PM
Cary,
I have a quick question.... I was looking at the system to see what will be needed to install the Valve, I notice something before the pressure gage, pressure tank and switch.  I am not sure if he installed some sort of check Valve , best way to describe is it looks like a Tee , made of brass I assume. I search on line to see if I could find something that looked like it but no luck.  If this is a check / black flow will that cause issues if I install the valve before it?

Robert
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 25, 2012, 09:34:53 PM
A check valve does not usually look like a tee. Can you post a picture?
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 25, 2012, 10:18:10 PM
Hello Cary,

Took a picture but have no clue on how to post it here.  See the insert image button but can't seem to upload anything

Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 08:04:50 AM
How about just emailing the picture to me at caustin@cyclestopvalves.com.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 08:10:25 AM
Under Additional Options, I clicked "attach" and browsed for the pic I wanted.  Just testing to attach a picture.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 26, 2012, 08:15:28 AM
Good Morning Cary

Yeah I tried everything, I dont have that option, just notify, smileys thing and return to topic.
Might be way my profile is set up?
I will send the picture right now to your other email.

Robert
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 09:29:48 AM
Got the picture, and yes that is a swing check valve.  You must have another check valve on the pump to work properly, so you should be able to remove that check valve.  Either way it won't effect the CSV.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 26, 2012, 09:39:21 AM
Ok... I have no idea if there is a check valve at the pump..... I will install the CSV before this Check Valve just to be sure, especially it it doesn't effect the operation of the CSV.

I couldnt find that valve anywhere on line.... oh well, thank for your help on this one :)
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 09:40:41 AM
Posting the picture of your swing check.  Just had to resize a little.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 26, 2012, 09:41:51 AM
see I cant even open that .... very odd  :-[
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 09:43:20 AM
So you can't even see the pictures I posted??
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 26, 2012, 09:48:02 AM
No I cant.... I am wondering if something on my system is blocking it.. it should though
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 09:55:29 AM
Maybe a popup blocker?
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 26, 2012, 09:57:10 AM
I checked that..... will keep trying... stuff like this drives me nuts.

Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 10:03:30 AM
I would remove that swing check.  You must have one in the well or you would be getting a lot of air and water hammer.  If that swing check isn't causing a problem now, it is only a matter of time.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 26, 2012, 10:15:06 AM
ok.... everything works good now, I will remove and see how things go, can always reinstall. Have no idea why he would put two in, but I will go with your advice.

How big of an issue is it using the large pressure tank I have now?
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 10:27:24 AM
The big tank is not an issue.  Just need to set the CSV close to the pressure switch off setting so it doens't take more tan 3 minutes to fill the tank after all water has been turned off.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 26, 2012, 10:30:09 AM
ok.. the valve is on the way... I am sure I am going to need some help ... or maybe not  8)
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on June 26, 2012, 10:39:08 AM
Just make sure the pump runs and the pressure holds steady while running something small like a shower.  Then make sure it doesn't take more than three minutes to fill the tank after you turn off all the water.  If it does that you don't need me.  If it doesn't call or click here and I will be glad to help.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 26, 2012, 10:45:00 AM
Thank you Cary
I will post either way :)

Your help has been appreciated
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on June 30, 2012, 09:17:56 AM
Hello Cary,

Well I am back. Got the CSV installed.
have the pressure switch set at rough 45/65... +/-
Right now I have CSV around 60 ish
If I turn on 1 faucet the pressure with go down to 45, climb back up to the 60 and stay constant, but if I open another faucet the pressure slowly drops down again, if I open another drops even further (it doesn't hold steady). If I shut 1 faucet off it climbs back up a little, shut another it climbs back up to 60. When I shut all faucets, it goes from 60 to 65 with in 30 seconds. Am I asking to much of the pump at this pressure?

Roberr
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on July 01, 2012, 07:00:14 PM
You only have a 7 GPM pump.  At that depth and pressure, that pump should be able to keep the pressure up to 60 PSI, as long as you are using less than 6 GPM.  At 6 GPM, the pressure from the CSV1A should only be 3 PSI lower than when running 2 GPM, which is still 57 PSI. You can see the 3 PSI loss in the "Reduced Pressure Fall-off" chart at this link.

http://cyclestopvalves.com/prod_csv1a_specs.html

Any pressure lower than 57 PSI, is because that is all the water your pump can supply.

If you ever have to replace the pump, you could go with a larger pump.  That CSV1A is good to 25 GPM.  Even if your well can't produce more than 7 GPM for long periods of time, it probably can for short periods of time.  Then the CSV can make it work like a 7 GPM pump again when you need to use water for a long preiod of time.  You simply open only 7 GPM from the faucets, and the CSV can make a 25 GPM pump work fine at 7 or less GPM.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on July 01, 2012, 07:58:30 PM
Hello Cary.....
So, if I am understand you correctly... By me opening all of the faucets I exceeded the 6 gpm demand big time. ( I doubt that will ever happen , I was just seeing if I had the valve installed correctly) I had a shower, tube, and outside faucet open .

That is what cause the pressure to drop way down? The pump couldn't keep up with the demand?

Would you happen to know, or tell me where I could find out how many psi are between the pump and the CSV ? I have a chlorinator and since I have increased the tank pressure I seem to be pushing water back thru the stenner into the tank , I am guessing the injection check valve is weak or not big enough.

Thanks for the reply :)
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on July 01, 2012, 08:14:59 PM
Yeah those three things will put out more water than your pump can produce and the pressure will fall off.  The pressure before the CSV depends on the pump and the water level in the well.  If the water level is high, like at the surface, that pump can build 225 PSI.  If the water level is at 200', then you will only see 138 PSI before the CSV.  Either way you want the chlorinator, filters, and any water outlets after the CSV, and they will only see the 40/60 pressure.
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on July 01, 2012, 08:42:45 PM
Ok.. well now that throws a curve ball at me...LOL
I am going to have to cap the mixer thing that the injector is installed in. Then come up with a way to install after the pressure tank. See , you do one thing and it leads to another and another and another... :):) the joys of being a DIY'er
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Brandymax on July 01, 2012, 09:04:19 PM
Cary,
I am curious why this didn't happen before, has install the CSV increased the pressure between the valve and the pump?
Title: Re: Looking to installe CSV
Post by: Cary Austin on July 02, 2012, 11:53:47 AM
Yes the pressure will be higher between the CSV and pump than after the CSV.