Cycle Stop Valves
Pump System Questions and Answers => Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls => Topic started by: Mikerf12 on April 19, 2018, 08:27:36 PM
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Hello,
My well pump system is aging and the pump seems likes it is getting close to failing by the noises it’s making.
The current system is a two pipe pump system. The well is a 16’ well with a yield of 25 Gpm. The static water level 10’. It is a 4’ concrete well.
The house has two full bathrooms, a washing machine, dishwasher, five outside hose bibs, two of which are utilized for lawn irrigation. The house hot water is produced by a combi boiler. There will also be an acid neutrilizer and water softening system installed once the new pump system is put in. The outside hose bibs has been installed before the future water side bring and acid neutralizing system to prevent using treated water for outside purposes.
After reading many posts on this forum and my basic understanding of well systems, I seem drawn to a new pump with a CSV system such as the sidekick system.
Any recommendation on pump sizing and CSV selection including good brands and models would be very helpful.
Thanks in advance.
Mike
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You will lose about 10 PSI through the softener/filter. So starting with a 40/60 switch and constant 50 PSI from a CSV will only give you 40 PSI at the shower. A submersible would give you more flow and pressure. But if you want to use a single pipe jet, a J5SH or a J15S will have a max pressure of 80, so you can run 50/70 on the pressure switch. This will give you a constant 60 PSI from the CSV, which after the softener/filter will still give you 50 PSI to the showers. And the PK1A will work with any of those pressure settings and it doesn't matter if it is a sub or jet. But I would recommend the 10 gallon size tank if you end up using the 50/70 pressure switch setting.
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Thanks
In regards to the pump, I have a double nose setup so the the J5 would be the pump I need. The two pump you listed were a 1/2 hp and 1-1/2 hp. Either pump would work in this application?
Thanks again,
Mike
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Single pipe jet pump will work fown to about 24 feet depth to water.
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Thanks Cary
In order to stay with the two pipe system I have. It looks like to have the 50/70 cycle stop valve working I would need the J5 with the high pressure setting.
Can you confirm this would work with your system.
Thanks
Mike
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Yes the J5 will work, but you will need the high pressure ejector pack, model FH5H.
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Cary,
My old system is finally failing so I’m ready to order. Based on your input from above, I’m trying to make sure I order everything properly. The pressure tank option will be 10 gallon, which pressure switch option and csv1a pressure do I select?
I’m going to go with the J5SH and convert my two setup as I don’t think they make a pump for two pipe setups that can reach 80 psi.
Thanks in advance.
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Two pipe jet pumps can build as much pressure as you need/want. But at that depth a single pipe jet pump will work and the J5SH will work at 50/70 pressure if you like. That would mean a CSV setting of 60 PSI constant. And I wouldn't use the low pressure cut off switch unless you have a very weak and low producing well that could be pumped dry.
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Thanks Cary. I just placed the order. I didn’t see a place to specify the 50/70 pressure switch though.
Thanks for all of your help.
Mike
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Setting the CSV pressure to 60 would mean we would give you a 50/70 pressure switch. Thanks!
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You will lose about 10 PSI through the softener/filter. So starting with a 40/60 switch and constant 50 PSI from a CSV will only give you 40 PSI at the shower. A submersible would give you more flow and pressure. But if you want to use a single pipe jet, a J5SH or a J15S will have a max pressure of 80, so you can run 50/70 on the pressure switch. This will give you a constant 60 PSI from the CSV, which after the softener/filter will still give you 50 PSI to the showers. And the PK1A will work with any of those pressure settings and it doesn't matter if it is a sub or jet. But I would recommend the 10 gallon size tank if you end up using the 50/70 pressure switch setting.
Cary,
I’m about to order the pump and I’m convert to single pipe setup. If it was you ordering would you go with the J5SH or the J15S?
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They will both do 60 PSI no problem. Just the 1/2HP J5SH will only pump 5 GPM where the J15S is a 1.5HP that will put out 15 GPM if needed. Normally I would say stay with the smallest pump that will do the job, and 5 GPM is usually enough for house use. But with the CSV you can install as large a pump as you want, and the CSV will still make it work like a small pump when needed.
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Cary,
Had a few setback and am looking to order the pump this week. Still torn, given the situation and pretty big cost difference between the j15s and j5sh. I’m really torn what to do. Given the setup I posted in the first post do you feel the j5sh will be sufficient?
Thanks,
Mike
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I am not sure the J5SH will pump enough water to supply all your needs. But the J15S maybe quite a bit more than you need. Maybe you could split the difference and use a J10S?
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Will the j10s procure the pressure I need? Also how do you calculate for the depth on the chart?
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That pump will still work fine at 40/60 pressure. At 10' lift and 50 PSI it delivers about 15 GPM, which should be plenty.
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Will that pump work with the 50/70 pressure setup i bought from you?
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From 10' of lift the J10S will do 8.6 GPM at 60 PSI, and has a max pressure of 72 PSI. This means you would be able to turn the pressure switch up to about 45/65 and use a 55 PSI setting for the CSV.
If the well is large enough diameter to install a submersible, you can get a lot more flow and pressure for less money. A 1HP, 33 GPM Hallmark will give you as much flow and pressure as you want, and I see it on line for about 150 bucks.
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so without any modifications to the setup it will work if the Max pressure of the pump is 72psi?
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The chart has depth to water on the left side.
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Cary,
Thanks for all your help. The pump purchase is that last piece of the puzzle for me. I’m not trying to be a pain here but have a relatively limited understanding of well pumps and am excited to use the cycle stop system. I really don’t want to go through the effort of installing the submersible pump at this point. Given all of the factors I have provided here (3 bedroom two bath house, acid neutralizer and softener and a lawn irrigation system). What would be the best shallow well jet pump to work with the equipment I have purchased from cycle stop valves?
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Without using a submersible, the J15S is best, but also the most expensive. :o
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Cary- given my application, which submersible pump would you recommend? I still have not ordered and am hobbling by with the old pump.
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The depth is listed as "total suction lift" on the chart. The J10S shows to build 72 PSI max, pump 15.8 GPM at 50 PSI, when lifting from 10' deep. That should be plenty of water. And the CSV will make it work all the way down to 1 GPM as needed.
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Is there a J10s submersible model? If not is there a submersible brand and model you recommend? Just trying to look at all options before I pull the trigger. Thinking it may make sense to go this route since I need to go into the well anyway.
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Any 10 GPM, 3/4HP submersible will do as much as the 1HP jet pump. However, for a booster pump or really shallow well there is a 1HP, 33GPM Hallmark on the Internet for 130 bucks. You could buy 3-4 of those for what a 10 GPM, 3/4HP will cost.
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Cary.
Installed your setup last weekend using the hallmark 1 hp submersible pump you recommended, pump is about 10’ down. Quick question is there a way to get more pressure out of the csv? When I open my sprinkler zone the gauge on the csv is holding steady at 45 psi. Is this a limitation of the pump of is there an adjustment I’m missing on the csv?
Thanks,
Mike
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You can turn up the CSV1A as high as needed. But you will need to turn up the pressure switch as well. If you want 10 PSI more pressure on the sprinklers, then set the CSV and pressure switch 10 PSI higher than they are now.
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Cary
Low end of pressure switch looks to be about 50 and high end just over 70. Can I adjust the csv to 60 with these settings on the pressure switch? Also is there literature on the csv adjustments somewhere?
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Sure. Just run a shower or something at about 3 GPM and adjust the CSV1A to hold 60 as you want.
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Just to confirm as I don’t want break the valve. No pressure switch adjustment. But how do I adjust the valve? The manual doesn’t explain.
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The manual for the PK1A kit may not have instructions for adjustment, as they come preset. But you can get instructions from the CSV1A manual. Basically just turn on a shower or something about 3 GPM, and adjust the bolt on the CSV to hold the pressure you want. if you are increasing the pressure, you will need to adjust the pressure switch up first, so the pump does not shut off when you increase the setting of the CSV.
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Ok. Cary I really appreciate you taking the time to answer all of these questions.
Last question I hope:
Switch is 50 70 which is actually close to 50 75 valve is holding constant pressure at 45 with high demand usage going. If I set the valve to 60 it wall in between pressure switch limits. Do I still need to increase the pressure switch?
I’m new to all this well business and just want to make sure I set it right and don’t break something.
Also found the instructions on setting the valve.
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With a 50/70 switch you can set the CSV as high as 65 while running 3 gpm.