Messages

1

Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Quick Question on backflow properties of Cycle Stop Valve setup

« on: December 09, 2019, 01:06:11 PM »

Thanks Cary! I'm glad I asked! I believe you've saved me from a very costly error.

As for the picture, I just used the "Insert Image" button and inserted the web address to the image between the IMG tags. I was surprised as well that it displayed in full size but I suppose that is default?

Lastly, do you have an equation or a chart that displays how 115' equates to 50 PSI? I'm not questioning your math, but simply how it was derived. Does pipe diameter come into play?

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Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Quick Question on backflow properties of Cycle Stop Valve setup

« on: December 09, 2019, 11:30:32 AM »

I believe we mismatched on total length somewhere. For the sake of simplicity, we'll forget the second house for the moment since any setup delivering 10gpm to the main house further away would do just fine for the second. Here is how I arrived at a total of 397.1 feet of total head.

Well: 60' deep
Total Horizontal Pipe Run: 330' of 1.25" PVC
Friction Resistance of 390' of 1.25" PVC + fittings @ 10gpm equated to the equivalence of 7.1' of additional pipe
60+330+7.1 = 397.1

And for reference, the pump I was looking at shows a flow rate of 13gpm @ 57 psi assuming 394 feet of total dynamic head:

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Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Quick Question on backflow properties of Cycle Stop Valve setup

« on: December 09, 2019, 08:15:20 AM »

Thanks for the quick response Cary! You've given me more idea's to chew on. I had overlooked increasing the overall main line on/off pressure whilst using a single CSV. However, my thinking still loops me back to using two CSV's just prior to the entrance to each house. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the CSV essentially take the place of a pressure reducing valve? I only ask as the cost of two CSV125-1 models is less than one CSV1A + two pressure reducing valves. The only concern was if the CSV would allow for water to flow in reverse at pressure from the single tank or have I misunderstood? Again, this is my first time learning about these products.

Also, just to provide some backstory, the 52 gallon pressure tank is in there just to recycle existing parts and not particularly a mainstay design element, but is just assumed to be able to be made to work. The main house is/was being run by a 12gpm submersible with a small 15 gallon pressure tank. The 52 gallon pressure tank was added last year while upgrading to 1" pipes. Unfortunately, the bored well supplying this house has developed a hole in the concrete well tile just below the water level and is now weeping mud into the system. The second house is on a different well along with a small 1/2hp jet pump that is now at the end of it's life. After nearly 15 years of very light sediment, I believe the plastic impellers have worn away and this pump is now only able to supply approximately 2gpm at 30-40ish psi. A simple toilet flush reduces any other faucet to a mere trickle for 2+ minutes... In an attempt to kill two birds with one stone while keeping cost down, my intention was to install an overachieving 2HP submersible in the clean well to fuel both houses. The 10gpm estimate is coming from the fact that the intended pump is capable of supplying that much to the furthest house at 60 psi with a TDH of 397.1 feet, but also the perceived "worst case scenario" would be a shower and washer running at both houses simultaneously with a random toilet flush thrown in. With the possibility of the secondary house one day being rented, I wanted to go ahead and future proof any potential water demand problems even if it is slightly over-engineered for the current use.

Thanks again!

4

Frequently Asked Questions / Quick Question on backflow properties of Cycle Stop Valve setup

« on: December 08, 2019, 12:27:03 AM »

Hello, while looking to design and upgrade my current well setup, I stumbled upon the term "CSV" while looking into various pump options. After a quick Google search, I immediately recognized the value of such an addition and wanted to incorporate it into my alleged setup. I'm currently designing a two house setup using a single well and pump. Given the dynamics of my hypothetical setup, I arrived at my intention to use two cycle stop valves just before entrance to each house. The reason for this was, I noticed there wasn't much literature on the PSI drop beyond the CSV if used on the "main line" close to the pump itself. I noticed that most use cases designed the CSV to be close to the pump without taking to account the additional head pressure loss or total dynamic head loss beyond the CSV. For example, a 50PSI setting CSV at the peak of the well pipe with an additional horizontal pipe run of 200 feet of 3/4" pipe would result in a 45PSI rating at 10GPM at a house 200 feet away. I doubt many would notice, but in larger or longer setups, this could quickly become relevant and might be a good topic to cover if not already. Then again, I perhaps, simply missed it while searching this forum.

Regardless, my  ultimate question is this. At what rate does a CSV allow for backflow, if any at all? Particularly for a CSV125-1 model. My unique setup has a main house and a "guest" or "party house" which is mostly unused, but, in which I intend to tee off from the main line with the sole reservoir tank being located under the main house which is nearly 600ft away. To give a crude drawing, see below:

Well--(Backflow valve+Tee)---------------(330ft TDH)-------------------CSV+(52g pressure tank) (12.8 draw down at 40-60 PSI)---Main house
            |
            |
        (250ft TDH)
            |
            |
          CSV (no tank)
            |
            House

While I understand the pressure drop from the friction of the pipe given this distance, I'm curious if the backflow of the CSV at the main house  pressure tank will allow for unrestricted back pressure flow to the second house at 40/60. I understand this is an unconventional system, and I'm prepared for the additional cost of running it correctly with a central flow point, but under the basis of simple cost savings of running additional pipe near service entry power lines, would this system work and allow the pressure tank to back flow to the second house at 40/60? I apologize if this seems ignorant, but I couldn't find a cut away diagram that showed the internals of a CSV product.

Thanks,
Aaron