Messages

1

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Concerned about potential max pressure on pump side of CSV

« on: August 03, 2023, 11:39:09 AM »

There's actually two check valves, so I don't think water is flowing backward. Would that cause it to make a sound?

It does seem like perhaps something is using water in the house at those times and we were not aware of it. It seems like possibly what is happening is the whine occurs when water is flowing from the pressure tank to the house, and then when the pressure drops low enough for the switch to kick on the pump, the sound stops. But that doesn't explain why the CSV is making that whine sound.

2

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Concerned about potential max pressure on pump side of CSV

« on: August 02, 2023, 10:38:00 AM »

Fast forward ~3 years, and we've had this system up and running for quite a while. We ended up removing the Dole valve due to the noise it made and just relying on a Cycle Stop Sensor as you suggested.

However, after a primary bedroom bathroom remodel, the 1 HP pump in the cistern was insufficient for producing enough pressure at higher flows needed to run body sprayers, rain head, etc all at the same time. We upgraded the cistern pump (and pump box) to 2 HP -- a Goulds 35GS20412CL. Ever since then, we've had a very odd problem:

The CSV1A now intermittently starts making a very loud whining sound. When this occurs, its usually not when someone is using water in the house. The cycle stop sensors for both the deep well and the cistern pump both read 0A. It occurs for about 1-3 minutes. Then the well switch makes a fluttering sound and finally the cistern pump kicks on. Occasionally, the whine stops without the cistern pump kicking on, and in that case, the well tank empties and then there is no water in the house.

Despite there being 0A reading on the sensors, cutting power to the system via the circuit breaker for the pump does also stop the sound.

Here's a video with the whine sound:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/esa3bgd89isl0u3a1ph1y/2023-07-22-13.47.07.mp4?rlkey=j7hrm9xp1ng6wzb1i618kpx8q&dl=0

Do you know what is wrong, or, what additional information can I provide to help diagnose?

3

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Concerned about potential max pressure on pump side of CSV

« on: April 01, 2020, 09:53:42 AM »

Hmm, that's interesting. It certainly should run for over a minute. Is it safe to run the well dry repeatedly? I had heard from the driller who replaced the
pump for us 5 years ago that it can cause sediment kickup and other issues that I don't recall.

Would it make sense to add a flow restriction and also a pressure bypass valve (maybe a Poppet or something) so that the well pump would not be able to build over a certain pressure. Below that pressure, it would flow through the flow restriction, and above it, it would flow through the bypass. I would guess this would mean that it would run through the bypass until the water level dropped in the well to a certain height, and after that it would run through the restricted pipe. I'm not sure what the lifespan of a Poppet valve is though and if it could go through repeated cycles. I know they're usually used as a pressure relief to atmosphere.

Come to think of it, would a similar set up work to bypass the CSV if I didn't do a cistern? If the worst case situation of low flow and high water occurred, it would bypass and I would be left with the existing behavior of the well (cycle on/off as the pressure tank fills/drains), and when the water is lower and/or the flow is higher such that the pressure doesn't build above a safe number, water would flow through the CSV. I'm mostly interested in constant pressure for things like showers, etc, which are 3 GPM+ shower heads in my house, and its fairly rare for the water level to be at 100 ft. I just checked it before posting now (I have an Enoscientific Well Sounder) and its at 240 ft currently. I would still use HDPE for all piping prior to the CSV inside instead of PEX to avoid the 150 PSI rating that Uponor gives their PEX -- I'm sure I can find a supplier with SIDR7 (250 PSI) sticks of pipe or something like that to use.

What are your thoughts on both of the options I proposed (bypass into cistern, and/or bypass across CSV) and both compared to just using a Cycle Sensor. (BTW, I do already have a Cycle Sensor, because I ran into enough instances of running the well dry and I was concerned with damaging the pump. Its a great product! So with any of these options I still would have a Cycle Sensor in there to protect the pump "just in case.")

4

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Concerned about potential max pressure on pump side of CSV

« on: April 01, 2020, 08:11:34 AM »

Wouldn't I have the same problem though with the pump filling the cistern? Either I'd have to run the pump at "full tilt," with no flow restriction, at which point the well would run dry because the pump can do more GPM than the well can restore, or, I'd have to put in a flow restriction to limit it to 2-3 GPM, at which point I'd have the same build up of pressure on the line.

5

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Concerned about potential max pressure on pump side of CSV

« on: March 31, 2020, 04:04:40 PM »

Unfortunately, we're somewhat stuck on the type of well pump. The water level changes pretty dramatically seasonally. We'll be at 120 ft and then six months later we'll be at 500 ft. The aquifer behaves very oddly. This apparently happens to our neighbors too, to the point where they drilled an additional few hundred feet to 825. The well is drilled 650 ft deep. It also produces very slowly, so after a bunch of use the water level drops dramatically as well. The pump is set at 575 ft. It is unfortunate that I have to do everything for worst-case scenarios, which for the CSV means 1 GPM and 100 ft of water, and for the pump I need to size for 500 ft deep water.

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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Concerned about potential max pressure on pump side of CSV

« on: March 30, 2020, 07:44:12 PM »

Hello,

I have a Goulds 5GS10 (1 HP) well pump. I'm looking to put a CSV1A into my system to deliver constant pressure. However, I have a concern. The CSV1A kicks in at a minimum of 1 GPM according to the literature I've read. At 1 GPM, this pump's curve claims it builds about 650 ft of head. The static water level in the well is about 100 ft. I'm not sure what the pressure rating of the drop pipe to the well pump is, but, the delivery pipe would get 550 ft of remaining head. Wouldn't that apply around 240 PSI to the delivery pipe? Its a 1" SIDR9 HDPE line rated at 200 PSI, 40 PSI lower than the maximum build pressure of the pump. Isn't there a concern about bursting? I was also planning on using Uponor PEX with ProPEX fittings between the check valve and the CSV inside the house, but Uponor rates their PEX as up to 150 PSI. I've got the same concern there.

I know 1 GPM is an unrealistically low flow rate for nearly everything in a residential home, but, I'm just trying to plan for a worst-case scenario -- perhaps a sink that's been turned on to just the right amount of flow, etc.

I feel like I must be missing something because plenty of people seem to use the CSV1A with a 1 HP pump successfully, and I doubt you'd have happy customers if everyone's delivery pipe and/or interior plumbing before the CSV was blowing up. What am I missing?