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Reviews / CSV Money Pit - NOT
« on: June 06, 2018, 10:34:22 AM »
I thought I'd post a response conversation from the "Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog" from my post on "New Motor - High Amp Draw". As Cary aka ValveMan continually states (I paraphrase): many professionals and users do not understand CSV. My research and results show that CSVs work. CSVs may or not be the most cost effective when counting pennies, but that's it. The following is the what and why for my recommendation for Cycle Stop Valve products:
Good luck at keeping your submersible pump cool at low flow rate demands like your house will use most of the time. Keep an eye I on your toilet handles for them sticking. As this would crate enough gpm to keep the submersible pump running the entire time and cause overheating pump failure. You will find pump impeller shavings in your screens inside your house or a whole house filter. Invest in buying a light to show you when your submersible pump is pumping water when you think there is no water demand.
How do you expect to be energy efficient with a CSV that keeps your pump running continuously as long as 1gpm or more is being used? It also has to run an extra minute to kick off pressure everytime your done using water and take longer than a minute to use it again.
My response (Short version - I love my CSV):
I agree with you on low flow rate cycling the pump for minor things such as flushes. I am reworking my use of a drip system that was cycling my pump every 10 minutes (even with a CSV). Also your observation about pump shavings in a filter - that was what I found in my screen filter before my pump failed. Before my pump failed I knew nothing, moinitored nothing, maintained very little and paid the price (note: the pump was 10 years old but only used heavily about the last 4 years).
Replacing my pump has been a learning experience and I may not have made the best choice by replacing the components by using the same as what I already had. The pump/motor has been installed and now my course of action is to make them last the longest possible. Installing various products from Cycle Stop Valves cost me about the same as labor cost to pull and replace the motor/pump ($650) and only a bit less than the new submersible pump, motor and control box ($900). I have the CSV1A, Flow Inducer, 10 gal tank and now a Cycle Sensor.
Out here in SE Arizona, it gets hot and stays hot. My GSHP (5 ton OpenLoop Heat Pump HVAC) runs almost continually - non-stop from 9am to 9pm - and now runs with NO cycling during the day and about 3 times an hour at night when it kicks in. On the old system, it appears I was cycling every 5 minutes when cooling, heating or not. Now I am cycling only 40 to 50 times per day.
It appears the HVAC and Pump together pull about 6500 watts (27amps) per Hour to cool a 3600 fairly well insulated house to 76degrees. Power to cool yesterday was about 100 KWH (and it was somewhat cloudy and cool at 100 degrees). Fortunately about 2/3s of this is covered by my 10KW Solar. The other KWHs are (now still) at a relatively low 10 cents per KWH from the electric co-op. My electric bill in the summer/winter average about $100 a month and I bank credits in spring and fall.
Choices have been made. Protecting that investment is paramount. I am now exploring various GeoThermal forums to better understand my HVAC for efficiency and to prolong its life. Working somewhat blind, I don't want to pump the well dry and I am still trying to find the heat exchanger flow rate for the best efficiency within my well's capacity.
I like what I see with the CSV and I plan on adding one to my aunts system next door soon. She has a Air Cooled Heat Pump and her electric bill is $300+ a month for a small under insulated house. Her main pump use is for hose watering plants and trees and I'm pretty sure a CSV will protect her pump - which is a backup for my system. Oh did I note - now my showers are a blessing with constant pressure and NO pressure cycling and temperature fluctuations.
Good luck at keeping your submersible pump cool at low flow rate demands like your house will use most of the time. Keep an eye I on your toilet handles for them sticking. As this would crate enough gpm to keep the submersible pump running the entire time and cause overheating pump failure. You will find pump impeller shavings in your screens inside your house or a whole house filter. Invest in buying a light to show you when your submersible pump is pumping water when you think there is no water demand.
How do you expect to be energy efficient with a CSV that keeps your pump running continuously as long as 1gpm or more is being used? It also has to run an extra minute to kick off pressure everytime your done using water and take longer than a minute to use it again.
My response (Short version - I love my CSV):
I agree with you on low flow rate cycling the pump for minor things such as flushes. I am reworking my use of a drip system that was cycling my pump every 10 minutes (even with a CSV). Also your observation about pump shavings in a filter - that was what I found in my screen filter before my pump failed. Before my pump failed I knew nothing, moinitored nothing, maintained very little and paid the price (note: the pump was 10 years old but only used heavily about the last 4 years).
Replacing my pump has been a learning experience and I may not have made the best choice by replacing the components by using the same as what I already had. The pump/motor has been installed and now my course of action is to make them last the longest possible. Installing various products from Cycle Stop Valves cost me about the same as labor cost to pull and replace the motor/pump ($650) and only a bit less than the new submersible pump, motor and control box ($900). I have the CSV1A, Flow Inducer, 10 gal tank and now a Cycle Sensor.
Out here in SE Arizona, it gets hot and stays hot. My GSHP (5 ton OpenLoop Heat Pump HVAC) runs almost continually - non-stop from 9am to 9pm - and now runs with NO cycling during the day and about 3 times an hour at night when it kicks in. On the old system, it appears I was cycling every 5 minutes when cooling, heating or not. Now I am cycling only 40 to 50 times per day.
It appears the HVAC and Pump together pull about 6500 watts (27amps) per Hour to cool a 3600 fairly well insulated house to 76degrees. Power to cool yesterday was about 100 KWH (and it was somewhat cloudy and cool at 100 degrees). Fortunately about 2/3s of this is covered by my 10KW Solar. The other KWHs are (now still) at a relatively low 10 cents per KWH from the electric co-op. My electric bill in the summer/winter average about $100 a month and I bank credits in spring and fall.
Choices have been made. Protecting that investment is paramount. I am now exploring various GeoThermal forums to better understand my HVAC for efficiency and to prolong its life. Working somewhat blind, I don't want to pump the well dry and I am still trying to find the heat exchanger flow rate for the best efficiency within my well's capacity.
I like what I see with the CSV and I plan on adding one to my aunts system next door soon. She has a Air Cooled Heat Pump and her electric bill is $300+ a month for a small under insulated house. Her main pump use is for hose watering plants and trees and I'm pretty sure a CSV will protect her pump - which is a backup for my system. Oh did I note - now my showers are a blessing with constant pressure and NO pressure cycling and temperature fluctuations.