Messages

1321

Valve Tech / Re: Low pressure

« on: October 30, 2012, 07:55:28 AM »

Well then it is just a process of elimination.  You could pull up the pump and check the screen.  Or you could remove the CSV and see if you still have low presure.  If the well has plenty of water, either the pump is not producing as much as it should or something is restricted.

1322

Valve Tech / Re: Low pressure

« on: October 28, 2012, 06:28:49 PM »

If the valve is not submerged, then something could be restricted.  Also if the valve is 5' below the pitless and the water is 15' deeper than that, there can't be much standing water in a 35' well?

1323

Valve Tech / Re: Low pressure

« on: October 28, 2012, 02:45:00 PM »

With a well that shallow, the CSV could be submerged under water.  If the cap and o-ring did not get installed or did not seal, the spring cage maybe full of water and rusting the spring.  If the spring cage is full of water or if the spring rust and gets weak, the running pressure will be reduced.  I like the CSV150 better for submerged applications as the spring is SS and the spring cage can stay full of water and work just fine.  Just need to drill a small vent hole so it can vent water instead of air.

If the valve is not submerged I don't know what could make it do that.

1324

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Better showers and sprinklers

« on: October 09, 2012, 10:09:34 AM »

Begging the pardon of you curling friends who DON’T get your water from a well, I thought I would pass along some info on a great device I recently discovered, and have just now installed in my water system.

It started when I was concerned about the strain on our pump from the frequent cycling (1 minute on / 1 minute off when we had 2 or 3 lawn sprinklers going at once (same problem with ANY high water flow requirement).  My on-line research came up with a relatively new device (certainly to ME) called a Cycle Stop Valve (CSV) .  What it does is keep the pump running at a constant pressure (adjustable to say 50 or 55 PSI) as long as the water demand is present.  That gives much better sprinkler (or shower) performance and prevents the strain on the pump and lines from excessive start/stops.

Here is the link to an illustration of how it works and the manufacturing company.   http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/simple/home.php 

I (with no great plumbing skills) got it installed within an hour. (see attached pic)  I was initially confused (actually just too impatient) with the adjustment procedure but a support guy from the company walked me through it (very patiently  J ) over the phone!

I just thought I’d pass this along FYI…..hoping some of you would find it useful.

See (some of) you at the golf tournament next week!

Cheers, Barry

1325

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: simple install question

« on: September 25, 2012, 08:52:19 AM »

I don't know why you can't see the picture.  It shows up for me.  Anyway try the link below.



Yes you need a check valve either on the suction side or before the CSV.

1326

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: simple install question

« on: September 25, 2012, 07:43:00 AM »

You can either move the pressure switch after the CSV as in the picture, or you can just extend the sensing line from the pressure switch and attach it after the CSV.  But either way yes, the pressure switch has to be after the CSV.

1327

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: simple install question

« on: September 24, 2012, 02:40:26 PM »

If you don't already have an air charge system coming off the jet pump to the tank, there won't be any difference in adding the CSV.  In other words yes, you still need to drain the tank ocasionally to add air.  The CSV goes between the pump and the pressure tank/pressure switch.  a 4.5 gallon bladder tank is all you need if you decide to change the tank.

1328

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: CSV with VFD

« on: September 14, 2012, 09:54:32 AM »

With the 1 PSI differential pressure switch that comes with the Monodrive, we can’t let the pressure drop and use the water out of the tank before the pump starts.  But once it starts, the CSV will pull it down and keep it at 50, and not let it build to 60 and shut off as long as you are using water.  The 40/60 pressure switch would be much better.

However, you don’t need the Mono Drive for a soft start.  The CSV will do that for you.  We have learned that starting a pump against a CSV gives the same reduced amp start as when varying the motor speed.  Starting a pump against a CSV is like starting an unloaded motor.  Sometimes it even starts with fewer amps than when using a VFD.

Also ramping up the speed of a submersible is much harder on the thrust bearing than letting it start at full speed.  Any rotation below 30hz or half of full speed will not lubricate the thrust bearing and will grind it off.  It takes 30hz or half of full speed to get the hydroplane effect needed to make a Kingbury type thrust bearing work like it should.

1329

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Need Help

« on: September 14, 2012, 09:38:02 AM »

The pressure switch is the little grey or black box screwed to the pipe on the pressure tank.  It will have some wires coming out of it.  There are two adjustment screws in the switch.  Don't mess with the small adjustment screw.  Just tighten down on the large adjustment screw about three full turns.  Turn the power off first, the adjustment screw is very close to the hot wires.

1330

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Need Help

« on: September 14, 2012, 07:56:52 AM »

Just turning up the pressure switch from 30/50 to 40/60 will help with the low pressure problem.  Then adding a CSV will help even more.  Increasing the size of your sprinkler nozzles will actually make the pressure lower. 

When the pump is cycling on and off between 40 and 60, as most people think is normal cycling, the pressure in the house seems low.  This is because half the time your pressure is increasing to 60 and the other half the pressure is decreasing to 40.  When the pressure is swinging between 40 and 60, you have an "average" of 50.  With a CSV, as long as you are using water you have a "constant" 50.  No swinging back and forth from 40 to 60 with the pressure.  A constant 50 is much stronger pressure in the house than an average 50.

Cycling on and off 3 times in 5 minutes can add up to hundreds of cycles per day.  Not only does this cycling make the presure seem low in the house, but it will destroy your pump, motor, pressure tank, switches, relays, check valves, and even hammers on the faucets, valves, and fittings in the house.

I have added a 50 PSI Cycle Stop Valve to systems that were already cycling from 40/60.  And even though we didn't increase the pressure at all, the customers told me the constant pressure made the shower feel so strong that they no longer need soap, because the good pressure will just blast the dirt off a person.

1331

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: CSV with VFD

« on: September 13, 2012, 02:35:22 PM »

Yeah, we do it all the time.  It is basically using the VFD as a soft start.  One way is to set the CSV to a lower pressure than the set point of the transducer.  The pump will run at full RPM and the CSV will control the pressure and flow.  When there is no demand, the bypass in the CSV will allow the pressure tank to fill to the PID set point, and the pump will "go to sleep". Then the setting of the "sleep mode" iin the VFD will determine how low the pressure and pressure tank goes before the pump "wakes up".

Another method is to do away with the pressure transducer, and use a regular pressure switch to control the VFD like it is just a soft starter.  Then the pressure switch and CSV settings are as they normally are.

Either way you are running the pump at full speed while the CSV reduces the flow and amps while maintaing a constant pressure.  Always running at full speed keeps the pump from running through any "critical speeds" that normally causes vibration when varying the pump speed.

1332

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: PK1A PSIDE-KICK water pressure

« on: September 08, 2012, 08:14:42 AM »

Tighten the large adjustment screw in the pressure switch down to 50/70 setting.

1333

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Two homes, 1 well & pump, 1 pressure tank, pressure problems to second home

« on: September 03, 2012, 03:16:35 PM »

The CSV1A is probably best because it is adjustable.  I say adjustable is best because you need to be able to turn up the pressure until you get what you want.  If you have a submersible pump, it will probably build enough pressure that you can turn it up.  See where your pressure switch is working now, 30/50, or maybe 40/60?  If you can turn up the pressure switch and get the pressure you need, then the CSV will make it even better because it will be constant pressure instead of cycling on and off.

1334

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: what to use

« on: August 27, 2012, 10:13:22 AM »

Hi feng
Thanks for the post.  Our valve is called a disruptive product.  The CSV eliminates pump cycling which makes pumps last longer and use smaller pressure tanks.  So very few pump suppliers will recommend our valve as it knocks them out of selling big tanks, which are no longer needed, and makes everything last longer, so they don’t get to sell as many pumps.

Since you already have a pressure tank and pressure switch, all you need is one of our CSV1A valves.  We have no one in your area that stocks these valves.  So call us directly and we will be glad to help you.  We take credit cards over the phone, but not off our web page.
Thanks
Cary
806-885-4445

1335

Irrigation / Re: Water Hammer

« on: August 20, 2012, 05:16:05 PM »

Swing checks are terrible for water hammer.  Any check valve with a spring-loaded poppet is better.  The spring pulls the valve closed as soon as the flow stops.  With a swing check, the flow has to reverse to close the check.  Stopping the flow after is reverses causes water hammer big time.

However, even with a good spring-loaded check valve you can still have water hammer when the pump starts or stops.  With that size pump you could be producing 50 or 80 GPM when the pump shuts down.  Any check valve will be wide open when the pump stops, and will slam shut from the full open position.

A Cycle Stop Valve (CSV) can help with water hammer in a couple of ways.  The first way the CSV will limit, almost eliminate cycling.  The CSV will turn the constant rate pump into a variable rate pump.  The CSV will hold a constant pressure on the system and the pump will continue to run with reduced amperage and flow, instead of cycling on and off at full amperage and full flow.  As long as more than 3 GPM is being used, the pump will run continuously.  If the pump doesn’t shut off and on, it doesn’t cause water hammer.

The CSV won’t cause the pump to run all the time, only when more than 3 GPM is being used.  Then when the pump does shut off, the flow rate is only 3 GPM.  At 3 GPM the check valve is only open the thickness of a piece of paper when the pump shuts off, and water hammer is eliminated.  The CSV also makes the pump start at 3 GPM, which also eliminates water hammer on pump start.

Not only will a CSV solve your water hammer problem but, the tenants will love the steady, constant pressure compared to the on/off, on/off you have now.