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Messages - Cary Austin

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16
Applications / Re: In well csv
« on: September 16, 2023, 07:14:02 PM »
Pressure switch off at 65 PSI would be right with a huge 80+ gallon size pressure tank.  With a smaller tank You will want a 50/70 pressure switch setting.  We also need to make sure the pump you have cannot make more than 150 PSI as that is the limit of the CSV125.

17
Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?
« on: September 15, 2023, 08:06:48 AM »
Just need to know how much pressure your pump can build.  Most 1/2HP, 10 GPM pump build 90 to 110 PSI max.  2.31' equals 1 PSI.  So, you can take off 10 PSI from having a static level of 25'.  It is not that your pump builds too much pressure, but barely build enough to work with a 40/60 switch.  Cycling 3 times to fill a toilet sounds like your tank is bad.  Get one of the PK1A kit with the 4.5 gallon size tank to replace what you have.  Everything in the PK1A is Stainless or plastic except the tank.  If you want to supply your own tank get the PK1ALT, which the LT means less tank.

18
Applications / Re: In well csv
« on: September 14, 2023, 11:11:28 AM »
Yes.  The CSVS125 can fit in the well just below the pitless adapter.  You can see it here.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/in-well-constant-pressure-valves/products/csvs125-1-cycle-stop-valve-2

19
Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Low pressure due to low flow?
« on: August 25, 2023, 12:03:43 PM »
I think it is going to depend on your pumping level.  From 60' deep that pump can only do about 8 GPM at 50 PSI.  When the pressure gets below 50 PSI the CSV just opens up like a piece of pipe and you are getting whatever your pump can deliver from whatever water level it is working with.  A gouge before the CSV would confirm this for you.

20
Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Low pressure due to low flow?
« on: August 25, 2023, 11:32:04 AM »
I suspect the softener or filter.  Can you put them in bypass and try again?

21
Valve Tech / Re: Sizing CSV for well
« on: August 21, 2023, 12:07:10 PM »
With only a 5 GPM pump your pressure problem could be from a lack of flow instead of pressure.  A 10 GPM, 1/2HP would be a much better fit for such a shallow well.  A 3/4HP, 10 GPM would be even better.

But you can get what you can get with the 5 GPM pump.  That pump lifting from 17' can make 155 PSI, which is 5 PSI higher than we recommend for the CSV125.  We have some fudge factor figured in, so it will work.  But the higher the pressure setting the better.  You can use a 50 PSI in the CSV125-1 with a 40/60 switch.  But you have plenty of pump pressure to turn up the switch to 50/70 and use a 60 PSI CSV125-1.  If the 5 GPM volume is not your problem, the 60 PSI pressure would be such strong shower pressure than soap would no longer be needed.  Lol!

22
Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« on: August 19, 2023, 05:51:50 PM »
Don't know why Zoeller can't publish a pump curve like any respectable pump company should.  But a 12 GPM, 1/2 HP is a 12 GPM, 1/2HP and there isn't much difference between brands.  Can't find a pump curve anywhere.  But from the stupid chart I can see it matches the numbers of other such pumps so the max pressure will also be the same.

23
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« on: August 19, 2023, 10:42:10 AM »
Adjust the CSV down a bit first.  That way it will take longer to fill the pressure tank and you can recalibrate the Littlefuse thing while the tank is filling.  It will be running at the lowest amps while filling the tank and hopefully the Littlefuse will adjust low enough to work.  If not, we made the Cycle Sensor to be infinitely adjustable for this reason.  Some pumps will drop a lot more in amps and the Littlefuse and other similar devices that are set at 25% amp drop just will not work.

24
Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« on: August 19, 2023, 10:37:15 AM »
If you know what pump you have a pressure gauge is not necessary.  I looked up a 12 GPM, 1/2HP Red Lion pump and it can do max 240' of head, which is the same as 103 PSI.  You can deduct from that 1 PSI for every 2.31' it is to the static water level.  If it is 23' to the water level you will have 93 PSI max at the surface.

25
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« on: August 10, 2023, 08:08:01 AM »
Glad you are happy.  Thanks for the video.  Very informative.  I have a few comments or suggestions.  The amp drop is determined by the type/brand pump you have.  I saw your drop from 9.3 to 7,7 amps, which is about 20%.  You must have a Pentair or Franklin pump as they are the ones with floating stage type pumps that don't drop much in amperage.  A floating stack design like a Goulds would drop 30% or more, and a Grundfos would drop by 50% or more.  If you use low flow for long periods of time it would pay to pick a pump with a better drop in amps.  However, a 20% drop with a floating stage design pump is pretty good.  Running cooler from the drop in amps and with cycling eliminated, that pump may last a lifetime.  But if it ever needs replacing, consider a Grundfos or similar design that would have a better amp drop.

Having said that, about half way through your video I saw the Littlefuse pump protector.  Most of those type devices look for a 25% drop in amps and shut the pump off thinking the well is dry.  In the video the Littlefuse device did shut the pump down on dry well condition.  That means the amps dropped by 25% not just 20%.  That is not going to be acceptable with the Cycle Stop Valve.  Anytime the CSV reduces the amp draw by 25% the Littlefuse device will shut the pump down thinking the well is dry.  If you had a pump with a good amp drop you would most certainly need to remove the Littlefuse protector.  Even with the much less amp drop of the floating stage design pump you have, I think the 25% drop in amps is going to be a problem for you. 

Since most dry well protectors on the market look for a 25% drop in amps and amps usually drop more than 25% when using a Cycle Stop Valve, we made a device called the Cycle Sensor that can be set for as low of an amp draw as needed.  You can see it here. https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/cycle-sensor-pump-monitor

The flow to your wide open hose test was restricte4d by the 4 way splitter.  The frost free hydrant will let out a lot of water and the pressure will get even lower.  But the ball valves in the splitter will only let so much water through.

You also have the CSV set for about 78-79 PSI, which is why the pump shuts off so soon after closing the taps.  A 60 gallon tank is a pretty large size to use with the CSV.  But your test does show that you can set the CSV to get any run time you want even with a large tank.  However, I would turn the CSV down a little or the pressure switch up a bit to get at least a minute of fill time after all taps are closed.  It is just hard to see where the CSV is set with such a large tank.  As you can see the pressure slowly creeps up as the large tank is filling.  You just have to take time and wait for it to settle to know where the CSV is set.  You can actually tell when the CSV starts working as that is when the amps drop below 8.  The amps should run below 8 for a minute while the tank is filled.  But again, I am afraid that will cause the Little fuse device to shut the pump down thinking the well is dry.  I am sure it waits for a certain length of time after the amps drop by 25%.  So, when it takes a minute to fill the tank the Littlefuse device will be a problem.

26
When the pump is not running there is no water going through the CSV, unless the check valves are bad and water is going backwards.  Water from the tank doesn't even go through the CSV on the way to the house.  Actually, having two check valves can cause them to leak back more than just having one.  Pressure is what keeps check valves closed.  The upper check keeps all the pressure off the lower check, and it can leak back.  This causes a strong vacuum on the upper check and it can also leak back.  Closing the ball valve to the house should isolate the problem.  Either pressure will leak off because the checks are leaking or it won't.

There is an o-ring in the CSV1A that can cause a whistle when the pump is running, But it won't make any noise when the pump is off.  That sounds more like a bell ringing and I don't know where it is coming from.

27
If the pump is not running when you hear that sound, water must be going backwards through the CSV.  It could be a bad check valve.  However, the CSV1A is only good to 25 GPM and you now have a 35 GPM pump.  It will still work with that pump but you won't see much more than 25 GPM even though the pump will do more.  You will need either a CSV125 or a CSV3A2T to utilize the larger flow from the pump. 

If it is a check valve leaking back turning off the breaker shouldn't have any effect?

28
Valve Tech / Re: Help with Valve installation
« on: July 27, 2023, 07:16:33 PM »
Looks good!  But you really only needed one union.  When you break it apart at the union you can pull the pump on one side and unscrew anything that needs maintenance on the other.  Unions are a pain and I don't like to use anymore than I have to.

If you ask for it to be preset at 58 PSI it should have had "set 58 PSI" written on the side of the box.  If so, and you haven't adjusted it, try turning on a shower.  Running a single shower or anything that is about 3 GPM is what is needed to set the CSV.  With such a large tank you have to be patient to see if it is holding 58 or slowly creeping up.  It should not creep up above 58 while the shower is running or the adjustment bolt has been tightened too far down.  With the shower running, wait for the tank to empty and the pump to come on, then adjust the CSV to hold 58 PSI constant.  It needs to stay at 58 for as long as the shower is on, even if the shower is on for a month.

29
Valve Tech / Re: Help with Valve installation
« on: July 26, 2023, 09:14:10 PM »
Yep. Will work fine. Sorry I didn’t mention it.

30
Valve Tech / Re: Help with Valve installation
« on: July 26, 2023, 07:36:27 AM »
Just install the CSV1A on the end of the black poly pipe before that first tee.  It won't matter that it is pointing up instead of sideways, it just has to be before that tee.

Nice drawings!  What did you use to draw those?

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