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31
Applications / Re: Request: Assistance w/ Old Pumptec Pressure Tank Based System
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 10, 2025, 08:00:10 PM »
I am guessing you have a 10 GPM series 1.5HP.  If so, with static at 174' you will have about 170 PSI back pressure on the CSV.  You will need the CSV1A, which will work with your 80 gallon size tank.  Just needs to be adjust to keep tank fill time to about 3 minutes.  The Cycle Sensor will also work with the CSV and protect your pump from running dry.  The Cycle Sensor can stay on the well pump after you get a storage tank and booster pump.  But the CSV1A with your pressure tank and switch can be moved to control the booster pump.
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Applications / Request: Assistance w/ Old Pumptec Pressure Tank Based System
« Last post by Gerry S. on August 09, 2025, 07:20:01 PM »
Greetings, great forum and excellent resources here. Spent a good while learning about cycle stop valves and now I’m hoping to get some pro advice on updating our well setup. That is, verification I'm on the right path along with parts numbers I should purchase. Some background:

We recently added an irrigation system to our home, and I’m trying to prevent the well pump from running dry. Based on my calculations, our well has a reserve of about 500 gallons (stats below).

Our system includes a Square D pressure switch and an 85-gallon Goulds pressure tank in the garage. Since adding the irrigation, we’ve occasionally experienced a complete loss of water and pressure. Twice overnight and a few times during the day. This never happened before, so I suspect the well can’t keep up with the increased demand.

From what I’ve gathered from posts and videos on this site, adding a cycle stop valve and a cycle sensor; along with possibly getting rid of the large 85-gallon pressure tank and Pumptec might create a more efficient system and help protect the pump from running dry. This is all without adding a 5000 gallon storage tank with booster pump. Which we plan to do next year but looking at a CSV and cycle censor as something that can be done right away and work with a storage tank after its installed.

I’m not sure what brand of pump or model is installed outside of it being 230 VAC, but based on a recent test by local well professionals (conducted before the new irrigation was installed), it appears to be a 10–15 GPM pump. Here are their write-up and results:

PUMP SIZE /TYPE: 1.5 HP
MOTOR SIZE /TYPE: 1.5 HP   
CONTROL BOX SIZE/TYPE: 1.5 HP FRANKLIN
PRESSURE SWITCH: 30/50         
AMPS: YELLOW 10.2 RED 10.9 BLACK 9.0
PUMP IS PUMPING AT: 12 GPM
WELL RECOVERED: .9 GPM
STATIC WATER LEVEL: 174
WHAT IS CUT IN PRESSURE? 35 PSI   
WHAT IS CUT OFF PRESSURE? 55 PSI
WHAT IS PRESSURE DIFFERENTIAL: 20PSI
PRESSURE TANK MAKE / MODEL: V 250 D GALLONS 85
TANK PRESSURE: 36 PSI
IS TANK WATER LOGGED: NO               
PITLESS ADAPTER INSTALLED YES SIZE 1"

Well stats from original well certification:
Drilled: May 2007
Depth: 509'
Bore Diameter: 6.5"
PVC Diameter: 5.5"
Water @325 Feet 1gpm
Water @425 Feet 2gpm
Distance from well head to pressure tank in garage: 150ft


Thank you for your time or any assistance!
Gerry
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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Water Hammer When Pump Stops
« Last post by Cary Austin on July 29, 2025, 06:59:20 AM »
Water hammer will always be there when the pump is filling the tank at max pump flow of 10-20 GPM.  At 10-20 GPM the check valve is wide open when the pump shuts off.  The spring in a spring loaded, poppet style check valve is supposed to pull the check valve closed when the pump stops, before the water reverses direction and slams the check valve closed.  But that all happens so fast the water still reverses, slams the check valve shut, causing the water hammer.

Adding a Cycle Stop Valve will still allow your pump to produce 10-20 GPM when needed.  The Cycle Stop Valve will just top off the tank at a flow rate of 1 GPM instead of 10-20 GPM.  When the pump is shut off while only pumping 1 GPM, the check valve is only open as much as the thickness of a piece of paper.  From the barely open position, the check valve does not cause water hammer when the pump shuts off.

You can use the CSV with any size tank, but the 5 gallon size shown in the picture is really all that is needed.  But if you have a 50 gallon size tank that holds 15 gallons of water, the CSV should be set at 55 PSI to work with a 40/60 switch.  In this way the tank is filled quickly to 55 PSI, and the CSV fills the last 3 gallons in the tank at 1 GPM rate, making it take only 3 minutes to fill such a large tank after all the faucets are closed.

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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Water Hammer When Pump Stops
« Last post by fotingo on July 28, 2025, 02:43:31 PM »
As far as I know, this has been an issue. I replaced the water tank and the issue was still there. I have the water pressure at 35-55 and set the tank at 33 psi.
I check it every 6 months. I believe the tank is fine as I've never had any issues with it. It only loses 1-2 psi in 6 months.

Is that a picture of what you're suggesting? (the small grey tank)
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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Water Hammer When Pump Stops
« Last post by Cary Austin on July 28, 2025, 12:46:58 PM »
Your pressure tank is a large hammer arrestor.  The problem is the check valve slamming closed from the full open position after filling the pressure tank.  Adding a Cycle Stop Valve has many benefits.  One of which is filling the pressure tank at only 1 GPM, not the full pump flow rate.  At 1 GPM the check valve is only open about the thickness of a piece of paper and there is no water hammer when it closes when the pump shuts off.

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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Water Hammer When Pump Stops
« Last post by fotingo on July 27, 2025, 10:34:34 PM »
Hello,
I am in Florida on well water. The well head is about 80 feet from the house. The water tank and pressure switch are inside the car garage.
This house is from 1998, so I'm assuming the well is too. Ever since I bought this house, I notice every time the pump stops, it makes a loud noise and sounds like the pipes rattle in the walls.

I have been doing a lot of research, but based on what I've read so far, I am confused as to how to fix this.
Some say the check valve needs to be replace (which is located at the well head). I also read I may just need a water arrester installed after the water tank and before the sediment filter.

The last hurricane that past through here destroyed my well head (well, the PCV pipe that was connected to it). So, I had to redo the connection again.
I was actually going to replace the check valve, but I could not take that thing off at all. I put a lot of force to that thing and it didn't move! So, I left it alone and just redo the PVC connection that goes to the house.

I have no idea on the condition of the check valve. My question is, would a water arrester help with the hammer issue, and if so, what's the best location for it?

Thanks so much.
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The CSV1A is made to only be adjust a few times.  Once set it should never need to be adjusted again.  When you turn the bolt too many times or it gets wet from submergence or something, the grease on the bolt is not enough to keep it from galling to the nut underneath.  When the nut and bolt gall together, it spins out the plastic holding the nut underneath the spring cage.  Yes, a new spring cage will come with a new bolt as well.  Sorry for your problem.

In the meantime, if you can't turn the CSV down you could turn up the pressure switch.  Tighten the large adjustment screw in the pressure switch about 4 full turns to the right.  That will turn up the pressure switch by 10-12 PSI and may then be set higher than the CSV and will keep the pump from cycling on/off when using water.
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Hi. For some reason, the threaded bolt valve on the top of my csv1a must be stripped b/c it doesn't go up or down when trying to adjust it. So, I am ordering the Model CSV1A Spring Cage and hoping that fixes it so I don't have to undo the plumbing and such.

Question: with the small tank and the valve not working, my pump is turning on and off every 10 seconds when I run water. I don't want to burn out my pump. I'm not sure how long it will take if I order tonight, and ship it to Oregon. In the meantime, is this a situation where we just don't use water except in small doses, or is there something I can do with the valve in the meantime? Thank you.
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Frequently Asked Questions / Using pressure tanks for storage
« Last post by Cary Austin on June 11, 2025, 11:37:08 AM »
Many customers have a large pressure tank or multiple pressure tanks in the attempt to supply extra storage for a low producing well.  Many times a large pressure tank or multiple pressure tanks can be detrimental to a low producing well, in that they become another demand that needs to be satisfied, on top of the water being used for the house, restaurant, or other entity.  I usually hear of air spurting out of the faucets.  This is because the well is pumped dry and making air while the large tank(s) are refilled.  Air from the faucets is not good, but that also means the pump is drawing air, which greatly shortens pump life.  There are ways to get some storage from pressure tanks, which I will discuss further.

First, a pressure tank only holds about 25% water, the rest is the air needed to push the water out when demanded.  This means to store as little as 100 gallons would take five of 86 gallon size pressure tanks.  With a 50/70 pressure switch and 49 PSI air charge in the tank, an 86 gallon size tank only holds 20 gallons of water.  Then it needs to be understood that the stored water in a pressure tank is used before the pump is started.  Only when the tank(s) are empty does the low pressure cause the pump to start.  Then all you have left is the water coming from the pump and low producing well before you are out and it starts pumping air. 

Pressure tank manufacturers started the fallacy that pressure tanks can work as storage.  Reading there instructions carefully you can see they recommend a much lower air charge in the tank when needing storage.  Using a 50/70 switch, and only putting 30 PSI air in the tank, means the tank is not empty at 49 PSI and still produces water until the pressure drops to 30 PSI.  This will make an 86 gallon size tank that hold 20 gallons with a 49 PSI air charge hold about 25 gallons instead.  However, there is only 5 gallons left in the tank when the pump starts at 50 PSI.  So, you really only have 5 gallons of stored water in an 86 gallon size tank that way.

Then, with a 50/70 pressure switch you have no control over how much water is in the pressure tank(s) to use before the pump starts.  If by chance the pressure was still at 70 when you start using water, you will get 20 gallons out of an 86 gallon size pressure tank as the pressure drops from 70 to 50, which is when the pump starts.  The 5 gallons left in the tank will be exhausted while the pump is running and the pressure continues to fall to 30 PSI.  At which point the tank is empty, the volume produced is limited to the size of the pump, and only for as long as the well can supply that much.  If for instance you have an 8 GPM well, and are using 12 GPM, there will only be 8 GPM coming out the faucet with spurts of air.  Technically, the pump should be equipped with a device like the Cycle Sensor, which will shut the pump off when air is detected to prevent destroying the pump.  But without a Cycle Sensor, the pump will just make what the well can give.  Only when the demand decreases below 8 GPM or stops can the well recover, and the pump refill the pressure tanks.  But the pump is a 12 GPM pump and is trying to refill the tank(s) at 12 GPM, when only getting 8 GPM to work with.  This allows a lot of air to get in the pressure tanks, which will blast out of the faucets the next time they are opened. 

An 8 GPM Dole valve on the line going to the pressure tank(s) will limit the tank fill rate to the well production, and keep the pump from making air while refilling the big tanks.  A check valve bypassing the Dole valve is needed so the tank(s) can supply more than 8 GPM when needed.  However, even without filling the tanks with air, once the tanks are empty and the demand is more than the 8 GPM the well can make, the pump will still be drawing air and spurting out the faucets.  There really is no way to use a pressure tank for storage, the manufacturers just like selling multiple large tanks for any reason they can persuade you to think it will work. 

A retention tank is also worthless for storage.  No water comes out of a retention tank without the same amount of water entering the tank at the other end.  Retention is all they are good for.

Using an SQE instead of a 50/70 pressure switch makes the matter even worse.  The SQE turns on when the pressure is 7 PSI below the set point, which in this case is 60 PSI.  Then the SQE will keep the pressure constant at 60 PSI for as long as water is being used.  With 49 PSI air charge in the pressure tank(s), an 86 gallon size tank will only add about 10 more gallons to the volume the pump/well can supply before it starts pumping air again.  Then when the demand stops, the SQE refills the pressure tank(s) to 7 PSI above the set point.  This is only 14 PSI differential for the tank to work with, making an 86 gallon size tank that holds 20 gallons with a 50/70 switch, only hold 14 gallons when using an SQE/CU301/2.

On top of that, if the first demand is large enough to quickly drop the pressure, the SQE will start at its set point and not drop the 7 PSI to get any water from the tank.  Only when the first demand drops the pressure slowly will the pressure fall 7 PSI below the set point before the pump starts.  That means you are only getting 7 gallons of water from the 86 gallon size tank.

You would be much better off with a cistern/storage tank and a booster pump to use with the pressure tank.  Even a 100 gallon cistern would supply more volume than five 86 gallon size pressure tanks.  A booster pump in the cistern supplies as much volume as needed at 60 PSI constant pressure.  This can be done using as small as a 4.5 gallon size tank when the pump is controlled with a Cycle Stop Valve.  A larger pressure tank would be fine, just not needed as all the water needed is stored in the cistern and well.  When there is a demand and the booster pump is started, the CSV will supply whatever volume is needed at 60 PSI constant.  When the cistern has only dropped a foot or so, the well pump is activated, and using an 8 GPM Dole valve, refills the cistern at 8 GPM without pumping the well dry.  While refilling the cistern at 8 GPM, the booster pump can be supplying say 15 GPM, and the extra 7 GPM needed will lower the level in the cistern.  This means a little 100 gallon cistern can help an 8 GPM well supply 15 GPM for up to 14 minutes before the cistern runs dry.  If 14 minutes is not enough time to handle peak demands like 15 GPM, then a larger cistern is needed.

This is a complicated explanation, which is why tank manufacturers can make people think a pressure tank can be used as storage.  However, in my more than half a century of working with these type of systems, pressure tanks always cause more problems when trying to be used for storage.  A pressure tanks only job is to limit the number of on/of cycles of the pump, not storage.  When you have a Cycle Stop Valve to limit the pump cycling, not much of a pressure tank is needed at all.  There always needs to be enough water either in the well or in a cistern storage tank to supply the demand required, because a pressure tank can't do it.

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Valve Tech / Re: CSV 125 50psi failing
« Last post by Cary Austin on May 10, 2025, 10:12:18 AM »
A 12 GPM pump will actually put out about 17 GPM running wide open like that.  Again, below 50 PSI the CSV is just a piece of open pipe.
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