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61

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / What are the chances of Brush & Bailing well, increasing wells GPM?

« Last post by Zoomschwortz on September 30, 2023, 08:55:24 AM »

I have a nearly 60 year old, 1.250 GPM well. I have no way to prove it, but I am guessing that when the well was new, it had to have been producing more than 1.250 GPM.

I was talking with a local Well drilling company and they said that for just shy of $1,000 they could Brush my 65 foot well casing and Bail out the sediment from the bottom of the well.
In order to do the Brush & Bail, I will need to remove a portion of my pump house's new roof and cut a hole in the ceiling above my well casing to allow access to the well.

What are the odds of Brush & Bailing the well making any improvement in my GPM?
Is it usually successful or more than likely a bust?

If I get the Brush & Bail done, would there be any advantage in getting a plastic casing liner installed?

I have checked into getting a new well put in, but the County I live in is not exactly easy to work with when it comes to new wells, especially if there is already a producing well on the property. One well driller instructed me to tell the County that the well runs dry in the summer and technically it does run dry, but it doesn't stay dry and the well will usually have enough water to start up the pump in a few minutes.

Thank you for any help you can provide
Ken

62

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?

« Last post by Cary Austin on September 19, 2023, 08:06:43 PM »

The tank is certainly bad. Look at the PK125.

63

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?

« Last post by Tyler Coressel on September 19, 2023, 04:55:35 PM »

I think maybe my last description wasnt very good lol! I took a video of my pressure gauge with my sink running to show what im talking about but i cant find a way to upload the video here. But it kicks in at 40, pump runs two seconds and kicks out at 60. Pressure drops as faucet runs, 5 seconds to get down to 40 then kicks pump in, 2 seconds and system is back to 60, kicks out. Process repeats. Same with toilet flushes. Keeps doing that until the toilet tank is refilled, hence the 3 or 4 cycles.

I am thinking you were correct the first time about the pressure tank being bad.  Doesnt seem to be tripping the pump overload. Its only a 7 gallon tank, but it also could be bad. It has been here the 7 years I have lived here and the system has always acted this way.

And yes, you're right, i forgot about the 1 psi per 2.31ft. Not a good idea to put the CSV right in the pump 50ft down. I will purchase one and put it below the pitless. Thank you for your time and for allowing me to ask my questions here! This is an amazing forum that i have learned a lot from already!

64

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: PSI drop -- is this normal?

« Last post by Cary Austin on September 19, 2023, 04:16:50 PM »

Yes. Sorry. Lol

65

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: PSI drop -- is this normal?

« Last post by DeanS on September 19, 2023, 03:46:46 PM »

So interpreting what you are saying, the psi drop I am experiencing is normal and to be expected in a low producing well?

66

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: PSI drop -- is this normal?

« Last post by Cary Austin on September 19, 2023, 01:36:25 PM »

The CSV1A itself has 5 PSI of reduced pressure falloff at 10 GPM.  So, when using 10 GPM you will have 5 PSI less than when using 2 GPM. 

Also, the lower the water level in the well, the less pressure your pump can produce by 1 PSI for every 2.31' it drops.  So, as the water level in the well drops by 23', the pump produces 10 PSI less pressure.  Conversely, as the water level rises in the well the pressure increases by the same amount.

You can turn up the CSV and pressure switch by 5 PSI to make up foe reduced pressure fall off.  But you need a larger pump to make up for a decreasing water level.  However, the water level can only decrease by so much as it is a low producing well, and it is probably a good thing that the flow and pressure drop off as the well is pumped down.

67

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?

« Last post by Cary Austin on September 19, 2023, 01:27:41 PM »

"it runs 2 or 3 seconds each time and has things back up to 60psi."

This makes me think you have a different problem.  The cycling I am talking about happens as the tank fills to 60 and drains to 40 PSI.  If the tank is bad and has no air charge, it changes from 40 to 60 every few seconds as the pump cycles on and off quickly.

What you just said makes me thing the pump is not reaching 60 until the pump has cycled on about 3 times.  That would be the overload in the motor tripping, and resetting after cooling off for a minute or so.

A Cycle Stop Valve can help when the pressure is going from 40 to 60 over and over, but it can't help at all unless the motor is operating properly and not tripping the overload. 

A CSV125 in the well needs to go as high up as possible.  Just a couple feet below the pitless is best.  The lower in the well the CSV is installed, the lower the pressure it delivers by 1 PSI for every 2.31'.

68

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / PSI drop -- is this normal?

« Last post by DeanS on September 18, 2023, 01:37:25 PM »

Hi Cary. CSV1A valve installed before 20 gallon pressure tank.  CSV set at 64 psi @ 2-3 gpm.  CSV installed this summer.

 Irrigation system uses 9 gpm during 20 minute cycle.  PSI starts at about 60 and not 64 psi which I know is normal due to friction loss.  My question is, during the 20 min irrigation cycle, the psi can drop from 60 to 57, sometimes 55.  If household water is used (flush toilet for example) during the 20 min irrigation cycle, the psi could drop a couple more psi until that water is done being used and it rises again to what it was prior to flushing. Is this normal (the psi drop during the cycle as well as dropping a bit more if toilet flushed) and to be expected? I know practically nothing about pumps and read about the charts and head pressure and it makes my head hurt.  The irrigation coverage is excellent and my lawn looks great, I am just trying to see if normal or is it indicative that the new pump (11 months old) might be failing or some other issue. I think it is normal but I am just a dummy accountant.

Here are some key things you may need to know:
- GPM output of irrigation system is about 9 gpm; well recovery is 3.4 gpm. So each minutes lose 5.6 gpm
- this equates to feet in the well loss of : 5.6 gpm X 20 mins divide by 1.5 factor = 75 feet of well lost during 20 minute sprinkler cycle ; 112 gallons lost
- well is 200 feet deep; static water level is at 15 feet; pump is at 180 feet; well guy says when full the well holds approx 240 gallons
- pump is Goulds 3/4 HP model 10CS07412CL

I am thinking the 75 feet (112 gallons) lost in the well during the cycle means less head pressure for the pump so the 4-6 psi drop is normal in this situation. But as i said, I am a dummy accountant not a well water guy and pump charts make my eyes hurts, so figured you might be able to help me. 
 The CSV has been great overall as it does what it is supposed to do. So I am very happy in that regard.

Thanks.

69

Applications / Re: In well csv

« Last post by Cary Austin on September 16, 2023, 07:14:02 PM »

Pressure switch off at 65 PSI would be right with a huge 80+ gallon size pressure tank.  With a smaller tank You will want a 50/70 pressure switch setting.  We also need to make sure the pump you have cannot make more than 150 PSI as that is the limit of the CSV125.

70

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?

« Last post by Tyler Coressel on September 16, 2023, 07:33:45 AM »

Thank you for the information!

I understand about the pressure tank maybe being bad, that makes sense. When it cycles 3 times to fill a toilet, it runs 2 or 3 seconds each time and has things back up to 60psi. I thought that was okay since it builds up pressure so quickly. I do understand that short cycling will kill it. Do you think my pump is too small for the well depth? You said it barely makes enough pressure to work with 40/60, so that concerns me. I might have something incorrect in the system.
 
I was considering the CSV125 to thread into the bottom of the pitless adapter, but had another thought. Is there any reson i couldn't thread a pipe nipple into the pump outlet and put the csv125 there, then a hose barb to poly pipe? In my mind, that would keep the back pressure off the poly pipe and keep it in the pump housing. Or is that a bad idea?

I will consider all options and suggestions. Sometimes what we think we know about things isnt correct, and I am willing to relearn anything that I may have misunderstood for years. I will surely replace the pressure tank at this point. Just wondering if I did okay on pump choice and my thought process. If something I mentioned could be done better, I am all ears.