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61
Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?
« Last post by Cary Austin on September 19, 2023, 01:27:41 PM »
"it runs 2 or 3 seconds each time and has things back up to 60psi."

This makes me think you have a different problem.  The cycling I am talking about happens as the tank fills to 60 and drains to 40 PSI.  If the tank is bad and has no air charge, it changes from 40 to 60 every few seconds as the pump cycles on and off quickly.

What you just said makes me thing the pump is not reaching 60 until the pump has cycled on about 3 times.  That would be the overload in the motor tripping, and resetting after cooling off for a minute or so.

A Cycle Stop Valve can help when the pressure is going from 40 to 60 over and over, but it can't help at all unless the motor is operating properly and not tripping the overload. 

A CSV125 in the well needs to go as high up as possible.  Just a couple feet below the pitless is best.  The lower in the well the CSV is installed, the lower the pressure it delivers by 1 PSI for every 2.31'.
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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / PSI drop -- is this normal?
« Last post by DeanS on September 18, 2023, 01:37:25 PM »
Hi Cary. CSV1A valve installed before 20 gallon pressure tank.  CSV set at 64 psi @ 2-3 gpm.  CSV installed this summer.

 Irrigation system uses 9 gpm during 20 minute cycle.  PSI starts at about 60 and not 64 psi which I know is normal due to friction loss.  My question is, during the 20 min irrigation cycle, the psi can drop from 60 to 57, sometimes 55.  If household water is used (flush toilet for example) during the 20 min irrigation cycle, the psi could drop a couple more psi until that water is done being used and it rises again to what it was prior to flushing. Is this normal (the psi drop during the cycle as well as dropping a bit more if toilet flushed) and to be expected? I know practically nothing about pumps and read about the charts and head pressure and it makes my head hurt.  The irrigation coverage is excellent and my lawn looks great, I am just trying to see if normal or is it indicative that the new pump (11 months old) might be failing or some other issue. I think it is normal but I am just a dummy accountant.

Here are some key things you may need to know:
- GPM output of irrigation system is about 9 gpm; well recovery is 3.4 gpm. So each minutes lose 5.6 gpm
- this equates to feet in the well loss of : 5.6 gpm X 20 mins divide by 1.5 factor = 75 feet of well lost during 20 minute sprinkler cycle ; 112 gallons lost
- well is 200 feet deep; static water level is at 15 feet; pump is at 180 feet; well guy says when full the well holds approx 240 gallons
- pump is Goulds 3/4 HP model 10CS07412CL

I am thinking the 75 feet (112 gallons) lost in the well during the cycle means less head pressure for the pump so the 4-6 psi drop is normal in this situation. But as i said, I am a dummy accountant not a well water guy and pump charts make my eyes hurts, so figured you might be able to help me. 
 The CSV has been great overall as it does what it is supposed to do. So I am very happy in that regard.

Thanks.
63
Applications / Re: In well csv
« Last post by Cary Austin on September 16, 2023, 07:14:02 PM »
Pressure switch off at 65 PSI would be right with a huge 80+ gallon size pressure tank.  With a smaller tank You will want a 50/70 pressure switch setting.  We also need to make sure the pump you have cannot make more than 150 PSI as that is the limit of the CSV125.
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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?
« Last post by Tyler Coressel on September 16, 2023, 07:33:45 AM »
Thank you for the information!

I understand about the pressure tank maybe being bad, that makes sense. When it cycles 3 times to fill a toilet, it runs 2 or 3 seconds each time and has things back up to 60psi. I thought that was okay since it builds up pressure so quickly. I do understand that short cycling will kill it. Do you think my pump is too small for the well depth? You said it barely makes enough pressure to work with 40/60, so that concerns me. I might have something incorrect in the system.
 
I was considering the CSV125 to thread into the bottom of the pitless adapter, but had another thought. Is there any reson i couldn't thread a pipe nipple into the pump outlet and put the csv125 there, then a hose barb to poly pipe? In my mind, that would keep the back pressure off the poly pipe and keep it in the pump housing. Or is that a bad idea?

I will consider all options and suggestions. Sometimes what we think we know about things isnt correct, and I am willing to relearn anything that I may have misunderstood for years. I will surely replace the pressure tank at this point. Just wondering if I did okay on pump choice and my thought process. If something I mentioned could be done better, I am all ears.
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Applications / Re: In well csv
« Last post by Kristo89 on September 16, 2023, 06:40:51 AM »
Awesome! That should work perfect. I’m thinking of ordering the 60 psi valve. Right now my pump switch is set for 40/60. I’m guessing that I’ll have to adjust it up to 65?
66
Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?
« Last post by Cary Austin on September 15, 2023, 08:06:48 AM »
Just need to know how much pressure your pump can build.  Most 1/2HP, 10 GPM pump build 90 to 110 PSI max.  2.31' equals 1 PSI.  So, you can take off 10 PSI from having a static level of 25'.  It is not that your pump builds too much pressure, but barely build enough to work with a 40/60 switch.  Cycling 3 times to fill a toilet sounds like your tank is bad.  Get one of the PK1A kit with the 4.5 gallon size tank to replace what you have.  Everything in the PK1A is Stainless or plastic except the tank.  If you want to supply your own tank get the PK1ALT, which the LT means less tank.
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Applications / Re: In well csv
« Last post by Cary Austin on September 14, 2023, 11:11:28 AM »
Yes.  The CSVS125 can fit in the well just below the pitless adapter.  You can see it here.

https://cyclestopvalves.com/collections/in-well-constant-pressure-valves/products/csvs125-1-cycle-stop-valve-2
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Applications / In well csv
« Last post by Kristo89 on September 13, 2023, 08:20:27 PM »
I’ve been looking at either converting my well pump to a vfd or installing a csv. The issue that I’m running in to is that my well supplies my house and my workshop and they are connected underground just outside the well casing. In order for the csv to work for me I believe I have to have it installed between the pump and the tee that joins the two water lines to the casing outlet. Is there a csv available that will fit in a 4” well casing?
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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Formula for pump math?
« Last post by Tyler Coressel on September 13, 2023, 07:48:59 PM »
First off, i am not a professional, so this is probably elementary for you guys that work with it everyday. But i was wondering how the math works to figure out your submersible pump pressure on the poly drop line. I want to get a CSV to install under my pitless adapter, but am concerned about the pressure. I just replaced my pump that went bad with a Simer 1/2hp 10gpm. My static water level is 25ft, my pump is 50ft down from the surface. What is the formula that figures the back pressure at 50ft of head?

Probably irrelevant details: 40/60 PS, 7 gal pressure tank. Poly line is 1 inch with no markings that i can find. Im sure its old. Probably cant take whatever its rated pressure used to be.

My current system cycles all the time, like 3 or 4 cycles for every toilet flush. Ridiculous. Im glad i found the CSV! I just need to make sure I know what I am doing before I order and install it.

One last thing, we have sulfur water in my area in Northwest Ohio. The water releases hydrogen sulfide gas which is murder on copper and brass. Kills electronics in my house all the time. Does the CSV contain copper or brass components?
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Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Low pressure due to low flow?
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 25, 2023, 12:03:43 PM »
I think it is going to depend on your pumping level.  From 60' deep that pump can only do about 8 GPM at 50 PSI.  When the pressure gets below 50 PSI the CSV just opens up like a piece of pipe and you are getting whatever your pump can deliver from whatever water level it is working with.  A gouge before the CSV would confirm this for you.
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