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71
Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« Last post by Tony on August 19, 2023, 01:51:42 PM »
Thanks Cary.

It is this pump:
https://www.zoellerathome.com/wp-content/themes/zoeller/content/literature/025095-Zoeller-4inSub-Instr-2-wire_190128_100819.pdf

Model #1450-0011

If I read the performance chart right it should be capable of 40 psi and ~9GPM at 65ft. Static water level is ~20ft.

I don't know how this translates with the CSV1A between the pump and the tank tee running @50PSI.

I'm using 160psi poly so I don't think I am stressing it.
72
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 19, 2023, 10:42:10 AM »
Adjust the CSV down a bit first.  That way it will take longer to fill the pressure tank and you can recalibrate the Littlefuse thing while the tank is filling.  It will be running at the lowest amps while filling the tank and hopefully the Littlefuse will adjust low enough to work.  If not, we made the Cycle Sensor to be infinitely adjustable for this reason.  Some pumps will drop a lot more in amps and the Littlefuse and other similar devices that are set at 25% amp drop just will not work.
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Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 19, 2023, 10:37:15 AM »
If you know what pump you have a pressure gauge is not necessary.  I looked up a 12 GPM, 1/2HP Red Lion pump and it can do max 240' of head, which is the same as 103 PSI.  You can deduct from that 1 PSI for every 2.31' it is to the static water level.  If it is 23' to the water level you will have 93 PSI max at the surface.
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Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« Last post by Tony on August 18, 2023, 01:46:34 PM »
Other than installing a pressure gauge :)
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Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Tylerr on August 18, 2023, 12:18:54 PM »
Thank you for the thorough response.  Very good info for me to use.  I suspected what you mentioned about the Littlefuse, and turned the sensitivity almost all the way down on it.  I will turn the CSV down slightly also.  Thank you again!
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Valve Tech / Calculating pressure
« Last post by Tony on August 18, 2023, 10:41:05 AM »
Question:

How do I determine the maximum pressure in the line before the CSV (i.e. between the pump and CSV) in a system with a 1/2HP 12GPM pump set at 65ft depth with the CSV set to 50PSI with shower running?
77
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 10, 2023, 08:08:01 AM »
Glad you are happy.  Thanks for the video.  Very informative.  I have a few comments or suggestions.  The amp drop is determined by the type/brand pump you have.  I saw your drop from 9.3 to 7,7 amps, which is about 20%.  You must have a Pentair or Franklin pump as they are the ones with floating stage type pumps that don't drop much in amperage.  A floating stack design like a Goulds would drop 30% or more, and a Grundfos would drop by 50% or more.  If you use low flow for long periods of time it would pay to pick a pump with a better drop in amps.  However, a 20% drop with a floating stage design pump is pretty good.  Running cooler from the drop in amps and with cycling eliminated, that pump may last a lifetime.  But if it ever needs replacing, consider a Grundfos or similar design that would have a better amp drop.

Having said that, about half way through your video I saw the Littlefuse pump protector.  Most of those type devices look for a 25% drop in amps and shut the pump off thinking the well is dry.  In the video the Littlefuse device did shut the pump down on dry well condition.  That means the amps dropped by 25% not just 20%.  That is not going to be acceptable with the Cycle Stop Valve.  Anytime the CSV reduces the amp draw by 25% the Littlefuse device will shut the pump down thinking the well is dry.  If you had a pump with a good amp drop you would most certainly need to remove the Littlefuse protector.  Even with the much less amp drop of the floating stage design pump you have, I think the 25% drop in amps is going to be a problem for you. 

Since most dry well protectors on the market look for a 25% drop in amps and amps usually drop more than 25% when using a Cycle Stop Valve, we made a device called the Cycle Sensor that can be set for as low of an amp draw as needed.  You can see it here. https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/cycle-sensor-pump-monitor

The flow to your wide open hose test was restricte4d by the 4 way splitter.  The frost free hydrant will let out a lot of water and the pressure will get even lower.  But the ball valves in the splitter will only let so much water through.

You also have the CSV set for about 78-79 PSI, which is why the pump shuts off so soon after closing the taps.  A 60 gallon tank is a pretty large size to use with the CSV.  But your test does show that you can set the CSV to get any run time you want even with a large tank.  However, I would turn the CSV down a little or the pressure switch up a bit to get at least a minute of fill time after all taps are closed.  It is just hard to see where the CSV is set with such a large tank.  As you can see the pressure slowly creeps up as the large tank is filling.  You just have to take time and wait for it to settle to know where the CSV is set.  You can actually tell when the CSV starts working as that is when the amps drop below 8.  The amps should run below 8 for a minute while the tank is filled.  But again, I am afraid that will cause the Little fuse device to shut the pump down thinking the well is dry.  I am sure it waits for a certain length of time after the amps drop by 25%.  So, when it takes a minute to fill the tank the Littlefuse device will be a problem.
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Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Tylerr on August 09, 2023, 05:20:37 PM »
Did a before and after video:   https://youtu.be/IX5NNtVEyf0

I am very happy with the results.  We finally have hot water at all showers, and good water pressure everywhere. 
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When the pump is not running there is no water going through the CSV, unless the check valves are bad and water is going backwards.  Water from the tank doesn't even go through the CSV on the way to the house.  Actually, having two check valves can cause them to leak back more than just having one.  Pressure is what keeps check valves closed.  The upper check keeps all the pressure off the lower check, and it can leak back.  This causes a strong vacuum on the upper check and it can also leak back.  Closing the ball valve to the house should isolate the problem.  Either pressure will leak off because the checks are leaking or it won't.

There is an o-ring in the CSV1A that can cause a whistle when the pump is running, But it won't make any noise when the pump is off.  That sounds more like a bell ringing and I don't know where it is coming from.
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There's actually two check valves, so I don't think water is flowing backward. Would that cause it to make a sound?

It does seem like perhaps something is using water in the house at those times and we were not aware of it. It seems like possibly what is happening is the whine occurs when water is flowing from the pressure tank to the house, and then when the pressure drops low enough for the switch to kick on the pump, the sound stops. But that doesn't explain why the CSV is making that whine sound.
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