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41
Valve Tech / Re: Sizing CSV for well
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 21, 2023, 12:07:10 PM »
With only a 5 GPM pump your pressure problem could be from a lack of flow instead of pressure.  A 10 GPM, 1/2HP would be a much better fit for such a shallow well.  A 3/4HP, 10 GPM would be even better.

But you can get what you can get with the 5 GPM pump.  That pump lifting from 17' can make 155 PSI, which is 5 PSI higher than we recommend for the CSV125.  We have some fudge factor figured in, so it will work.  But the higher the pressure setting the better.  You can use a 50 PSI in the CSV125-1 with a 40/60 switch.  But you have plenty of pump pressure to turn up the switch to 50/70 and use a 60 PSI CSV125-1.  If the 5 GPM volume is not your problem, the 60 PSI pressure would be such strong shower pressure than soap would no longer be needed.  Lol!
42
Valve Tech / Sizing CSV for well
« Last post by Andrew12 on August 20, 2023, 11:57:49 PM »
Hey

Been reading a bunch of posts here, think I have it somewhat figured but looking for some guidance. Looking to get a more ‘constant’ pressure from my well. Current setup is a 40~ gallon pressure tank, Franklin 1/2hp 5gpm submersible. 30/50 psi pressure switch. All located in the basement of the house. Going to be trenching over to a barn in the next couple weeks from the well, teeing into the existing line/hydrant. Well is 105’ deep, pump landed at 85’, static water level 17’. Pitiless adapter at 10’. Flow tested the well at 5 gpm. Looking at the csv12550, would you recommend leaving pressure switch at 30/50 or going to a 40/60?  Or would a csv12560 be better with a 40/60 pressure switch. Looking for 40-50 psi for showering etc. Thanks in advance!
43
Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 19, 2023, 05:51:50 PM »
Don't know why Zoeller can't publish a pump curve like any respectable pump company should.  But a 12 GPM, 1/2 HP is a 12 GPM, 1/2HP and there isn't much difference between brands.  Can't find a pump curve anywhere.  But from the stupid chart I can see it matches the numbers of other such pumps so the max pressure will also be the same.
44
Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« Last post by Tony on August 19, 2023, 01:51:42 PM »
Thanks Cary.

It is this pump:
https://www.zoellerathome.com/wp-content/themes/zoeller/content/literature/025095-Zoeller-4inSub-Instr-2-wire_190128_100819.pdf

Model #1450-0011

If I read the performance chart right it should be capable of 40 psi and ~9GPM at 65ft. Static water level is ~20ft.

I don't know how this translates with the CSV1A between the pump and the tank tee running @50PSI.

I'm using 160psi poly so I don't think I am stressing it.
45
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 19, 2023, 10:42:10 AM »
Adjust the CSV down a bit first.  That way it will take longer to fill the pressure tank and you can recalibrate the Littlefuse thing while the tank is filling.  It will be running at the lowest amps while filling the tank and hopefully the Littlefuse will adjust low enough to work.  If not, we made the Cycle Sensor to be infinitely adjustable for this reason.  Some pumps will drop a lot more in amps and the Littlefuse and other similar devices that are set at 25% amp drop just will not work.
46
Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 19, 2023, 10:37:15 AM »
If you know what pump you have a pressure gauge is not necessary.  I looked up a 12 GPM, 1/2HP Red Lion pump and it can do max 240' of head, which is the same as 103 PSI.  You can deduct from that 1 PSI for every 2.31' it is to the static water level.  If it is 23' to the water level you will have 93 PSI max at the surface.
47
Valve Tech / Re: Calculating pressure
« Last post by Tony on August 18, 2023, 01:46:34 PM »
Other than installing a pressure gauge :)
48
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Tylerr on August 18, 2023, 12:18:54 PM »
Thank you for the thorough response.  Very good info for me to use.  I suspected what you mentioned about the Littlefuse, and turned the sensitivity almost all the way down on it.  I will turn the CSV down slightly also.  Thank you again!
49
Valve Tech / Calculating pressure
« Last post by Tony on August 18, 2023, 10:41:05 AM »
Question:

How do I determine the maximum pressure in the line before the CSV (i.e. between the pump and CSV) in a system with a 1/2HP 12GPM pump set at 65ft depth with the CSV set to 50PSI with shower running?
50
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 10, 2023, 08:08:01 AM »
Glad you are happy.  Thanks for the video.  Very informative.  I have a few comments or suggestions.  The amp drop is determined by the type/brand pump you have.  I saw your drop from 9.3 to 7,7 amps, which is about 20%.  You must have a Pentair or Franklin pump as they are the ones with floating stage type pumps that don't drop much in amperage.  A floating stack design like a Goulds would drop 30% or more, and a Grundfos would drop by 50% or more.  If you use low flow for long periods of time it would pay to pick a pump with a better drop in amps.  However, a 20% drop with a floating stage design pump is pretty good.  Running cooler from the drop in amps and with cycling eliminated, that pump may last a lifetime.  But if it ever needs replacing, consider a Grundfos or similar design that would have a better amp drop.

Having said that, about half way through your video I saw the Littlefuse pump protector.  Most of those type devices look for a 25% drop in amps and shut the pump off thinking the well is dry.  In the video the Littlefuse device did shut the pump down on dry well condition.  That means the amps dropped by 25% not just 20%.  That is not going to be acceptable with the Cycle Stop Valve.  Anytime the CSV reduces the amp draw by 25% the Littlefuse device will shut the pump down thinking the well is dry.  If you had a pump with a good amp drop you would most certainly need to remove the Littlefuse protector.  Even with the much less amp drop of the floating stage design pump you have, I think the 25% drop in amps is going to be a problem for you. 

Since most dry well protectors on the market look for a 25% drop in amps and amps usually drop more than 25% when using a Cycle Stop Valve, we made a device called the Cycle Sensor that can be set for as low of an amp draw as needed.  You can see it here. https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/cycle-sensor-pump-monitor

The flow to your wide open hose test was restricte4d by the 4 way splitter.  The frost free hydrant will let out a lot of water and the pressure will get even lower.  But the ball valves in the splitter will only let so much water through.

You also have the CSV set for about 78-79 PSI, which is why the pump shuts off so soon after closing the taps.  A 60 gallon tank is a pretty large size to use with the CSV.  But your test does show that you can set the CSV to get any run time you want even with a large tank.  However, I would turn the CSV down a little or the pressure switch up a bit to get at least a minute of fill time after all taps are closed.  It is just hard to see where the CSV is set with such a large tank.  As you can see the pressure slowly creeps up as the large tank is filling.  You just have to take time and wait for it to settle to know where the CSV is set.  You can actually tell when the CSV starts working as that is when the amps drop below 8.  The amps should run below 8 for a minute while the tank is filled.  But again, I am afraid that will cause the Little fuse device to shut the pump down thinking the well is dry.  I am sure it waits for a certain length of time after the amps drop by 25%.  So, when it takes a minute to fill the tank the Littlefuse device will be a problem.
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