Water gave out this evening - might need a new pump after less than 7 years!

[MollyP]

I had this house built about 22 years ago and our original well pump lasted 15 years, which our plumber said was normal. That pump was replaced in 2010.  We also had our first pressure tank replaced at one point, but the one we have now has lasted longer than the original one. Our water pressure has been awfully variable for the last couple of years; it's actually scary to take a shower. You never know if you're going to get scalded or frozen!
I have not talked with a plumbing contractor yet, and I stumbled on your website and like what I read.  I am an engineer and although I don't work with fluid systems, I do understand the stress on motors that cycle on and off constantly.  Your CSVs make a lot of sense to me!
My question is when I have a plumber come out here tomorrow sometime, they are most likely going to figure out what needs replacing and want replace it with whatever it is that they like to use. Should I tell them I want a CSV and have them call your office?
It seems like a CSV can be installed after a pump or new pressure tank is installed (I obviously don't want to go too long without water!) but I'm thinking they might need to speak with you about sizing a system and what pumps are recommended (or NOT). 
We are located in SE Pennsylvania.
Please advise.

Thanks very much!
Molly

[Cary Austin]

Tell them you want a Cycle Stop Valve.  But let them go ahead and get the system back to running.  If you replace the tank, just use a very small tank, and order a CSV.  The pump will cycle quickly with the small tank until you get the CSV installed.  A few days of cycling with the small tank won't hurt much while waiting on the CSV to arrive.

Really all you need is one of the Pside-Kick kits like the PK1A that comes with a CSV1A and a new 4.5 gallon size tank.  I am pretty sure the CSV1A is the valve you need, but I would like to confirm that by knowing the size of the pump you have.

Don't let the installer talk you out of the CSV.  They will try as most either do not understand how the CSV works, while others do understand the CSV and don't want your pump system to last 30 years.

[MollyP]

Is there an easy way to figure out what size pump I have, or will I need to ask the technician?  I think the pressure tank I have currently is at least 10 gallons based on the size (roughly 30 inches high).

Thanks for the help!

Molly

[Cary Austin]

Probably at least a 20 gallon size tank (which only holds 5 gallons of water).  The size of the tank is sometimes a clue to the size of the pump.  A 20 gallon tank which holds 5 gallons of water usually means you have a 5 GPM pump.  A 40 gallon size tank, which holds about 10-12 gallons usually means a 10-12 GPM pump.

Other that that you can look for a control box on the wall, which will at least give the horsepower.  If there is no control box, that limits it to a 1.5HP or smaller.

Then you can also do an amperage test.  With a clip around amp meter on one of the incoming wires and running as much water as you can, 5 amps means 1/2HP, 7 amps is 3/4HP, 9 amps is 1HP, an so on.

Last but not least is a bucket test.  Open a big valve or as many hoses as needed to keep the pump running at a low pressure like 40 PSI.  Measure the flow in a bucket while using a stop watch and with a little math you can figure the GPM of the pump.  When using more than one hose, rates for all hoses must be combined.

[MollyP]

Turns out that I have a 1/2 hp pump which they told me does around 7 GPM based on depth etc.  It appears that I have a 20 gallon pressure tank.

We've never had anything like what I would call good water pressure, e.g. if you try to take a shower in the bathroom farthest from the water, you can barely get enough pressure to rinse your hair. Even if you hardly have any.     The worst part about it is that the pressure changes quite noticeably while you are taking a shower, to the point that you have to jump out of the water periodically to avoid getting frozen or scalded as the cold water pressure goes up and down.  It is clearly the cold water that is the problem.  The hot water basically never runs out; we have a geothermal system that pumps excess hot water into our hot water heater about three times per hour when it's running.

It would be a huge bonus if the CSV could address some of our ongoing issues, and it sounds like it would, as long as they don't stem from some other problem.  In the past we've always been told there was no way to fix the situation fort of having a second pressure tank installed upstairs.  Now I have a new plumbing contractor.

It looks like the problem I currently have is not the pump or the pressure tank, but the wires leading to the pump.  The outfit that installed the pump did not include a torque arrester and it's easy to see that the pump has been scraped around and they think the rotation also accounts for the wear of the wires at multiple points.  The well is around 180-200 feet deep.
Anyway, they are fixing the wires and then they will test the pump.  I've asked them to install a torque arrester, too.  It's got to be less expensive than the wear and tear on the system!  We had this same problem just a couple of years ago. 

Please let me know what you recommend in my situation.

Thank you!
Molly

[Cary Austin]

A CSV1A set at 50 PSI with a 40/60 pressure switch would make a big difference in pressure.  If you water level isn't too deep you can set the CSV to 60 and turn the pressure switch up to 50/70, which will make a world of difference in the pressure.

Torque arrestors are just a cheap little piece of rubber.  It won't hurt to add one, but when using a CSV, the pump doesn't cycle on and off enough to need a torque arrestor. 

Everything points to cycling being your problem.  Low pressure, chaffed wire, and a lot of other things are caused by the pump cycling on and off too much.  When using a Cycle Stop Valve all these problems go away, and you will have great pressure in the shower.

[MollyP]

That sounds really great!

How do I determine if the water level isn't too deep?  Do you mean how deep is the well, or what? 

Thank you!
Molly

[Cary Austin]

If the pump won't build up to 70 so the pressure switch can shut the pump off, then the water level in the well is so deep the pump cannot build 70 PSI.  Then you just reset everything from 50/70 back down to 40/60.  But if the pump will build to 70 you would really like the extra pressure.  You won't know until you try turning up the pressure switch.

It doesn't mater how deep the pump is set, it is still only lifting from the actual water level.  You can set a pump at 300' and if the water level is 20' from the surface, the pump only sees 20' of lift.