Author Topic: Residential Scenario: Will Cycle Stop Valve work for us  (Read 5830 times)

gsaunders

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Residential Scenario: Will Cycle Stop Valve work for us
« on: December 09, 2012, 10:39:02 PM »
Hello, let me give a quick run down of our issues and what we would like to do as homeowners:

We have a well that is 200' deep with the pump at 170' and we originally were only getting less than a half a gallon per minute recovery from well.  The original owner never disclosed this and he also did NOT have any sort of shutoff for the pump.  (Before knowing this) we had been living here for a year we noticed we started running out of water on heavy water days so we would have to quickly run down and shut off power to the pump. 

To make a long story short when we found out recover was less than .5 gallons per minute we tried well fracturing as the local company said they had great success doing this.  In our case we were not the success and only increased to just over 3/4 a gallon per minute recovery rate which is still bad. 

In the process they found that the original .5HP motor was not working to capacity as it could not pump all the water up.  I am guess it was damaged to to dry running.  We had a new 3/4HP FW pump put in and now we are trying to look at options.  I don't know what the FW part means... just what pump guy wrote down.  The static water is at 68' and the casing is 22".  I have learned after the fact we should have a cut off for the pump especially if we run out water, but the pump / well folks did not tell us or recommend it.

The other problem we have is in the house we have 60 gallon pressure tank ranging from 40 to 60.  If more than one person is using water it seems like we have almost no pressure and I am tired of it.  I personally want 60PSI to be the minimum with 80PSI as the max, but want to maintain this even when showering while laundry machine is going or dishwasher.  The internal pipes of the house is rated to 125PSI.

Needless to say and I am doing a lot of research and here is what I am thinking we will do.

We have opted to not drill deeper or try to drill elsewhere due to cost right now so we are looking at other options.

We are thinking about using what some call a cistern or water tank that will sit in the basement which could hold up to 1000 gallons of water.  There are also much larger ones for outside, but this would probably be sufficient.  Once this tank has filled up over time we should have enough water to not run out on day to day usage... even on very heavy days.

So I see us having the following configuration:

- The well with existing 3/4HP pump
- We need to add some sort of shutoff for the pump in the well so it does not fry when we run out of water.
- We add the water tank (inside or outside).
- My understanding is there will be a different kind of pump that would go into this tank to pump to pressure tank.
- I believe there would also be a shutoff for this pump as well in case we run out of water in that tank.  The outside tank would also be controlled by the filling of the inside tank.  Ultimately the outside could be shutoff automatically in 2 ways.  1) Water runs out, 2) Inside tank fills up.
Somewhere between the inside tank / inside pump and the pressure tank a Cycle Stop Valve would be installed.  It would either be the CSV1 or the CSV1W.  I mention CSV1W because it sounds like the CSV1 can leak or weep and I don't want that happening in my basement.
- I would need to get a 60/80PSI pressure tank switch if I wanted more PSI than the 40/60PSI gives.
- I should be able to continue using existing 60 gallon pressure tank.
- I am guessing the inside pump for the water tank would have to be a pump that was designed to to run they way needed.

So the big question... is what I described above a workable solution?
Do you see any problems with it or is there a more simple way of solving all our problems (water shortage and water pressure)... without having to also drill another well or deeper?
If I get an internal tank what kind of pump goes into it?

I look forward to your advice and guidance!

Thank you in advance,
Greg
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 11:28:26 PM by gsaunders »

gsaunders

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Re: Residential Scenario: Will Cycle Stop Valve work for us
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 09:26:26 AM »
I have done a little more research this morning and the largest tank I can get for inside my house is the Norwesco 500 gallon tank which is 31"W x 70"H x 71"L.
http://www.norwesco.com/page.cfm?menu=18

There is another one which is a flexible tank that can fit easily in the door and hold up to 950 gallons, but it's expanded size makes it a bit too large.
http://www.hydroflexsystems.com/index.php?page=Potable-Water-Tanks

What I really wanted was a 1000 gallon tank that is 64" diameter by 80" tall which would be perfect, BUT... I would have to take the doorway out along with part of the wall to get it in.  I could get it in the house through the large sliding glass doors... just not into the water closet without removing part of the wall.

The 500 gallon tank would still be sufficient I believe.  I wonder if you can connect 2 of these tanks in tandem to get 1000 gallons???  These tanks have a 16" fill opening at top and then the 1 1/4" Outlet at bottom.

But the problem now is all of this workable along with the CSV.  Is what I describe in original post the cleanest way of doing this?

I have found a local supplier for the tanks, cycle stop valve, pumps and so forth... now determining exactly what I need.

Since I am looking at two pumps (well pump / inside tank pump) along with making sure I have proper safety shutoffs for the various conditions I am not sure if this is going to be overly complicated.  I hope not, but definitely need a bit of guidance so am educated as best I can before I start trying to find a local well / pump / plumbing company.

Thanks,
Greg

Cary Austin

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Re: Residential Scenario: Will Cycle Stop Valve work for us
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 10:05:51 AM »
Here are drawings of a system like that.  One uses a jet pump for a booster and the other has a well submersible in the storage tank.  Either way will work.  I don't think you will need over the 40/60 pressure once you get a system that can produce the volume you need.  But if you want the option of increasing the pressure, a submersible pump will be much better.

gsaunders

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Re: Residential Scenario: Will Cycle Stop Valve work for us
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 01:05:06 PM »
Here are drawings of a system like that.  One uses a jet pump for a booster and the other has a well submersible in the storage tank.  Either way will work.  I don't think you will need over the 40/60 pressure once you get a system that can produce the volume you need.  But if you want the option of increasing the pressure, a submersible pump will be much better.
Cary,

I apparently don't know how to look at an attachment.  I can't find a link from your message on how to view the drawing you mention.  Could you point out how to view it.

Thanks,

Greg

Cary Austin

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Re: Residential Scenario: Will Cycle Stop Valve work for us
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 03:30:03 PM »
Trying one more time.


Cary Austin

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Re: Residential Scenario: Will Cycle Stop Valve work for us
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 03:36:44 PM »
Here is the same thing with a jet pump for a booster.