Pump System Questions and Answers > Frequently Asked Questions
Number of Cycles, Large Tank verses CSV
Cary Austin:
The number of times a pump cycles on and off per day will be the same with the Pside-Kick kit and 4.5 gallon size tank as it would be with an 86 gallon size tank and no CSV. The difference is the CSV system will make the pump cycle a few times for things like toilets and hand washing, but will keep the pump running continuously for longer uses like showers and garden hoses. While the big pressure tank system will let you flush a few toilets without the pump coming on, but will cause the pump to cycle repeatedly when using water for longer terms like showers and garden hoses. But the number of cycles per day will be about the same with both systems for in-home use alone. The CSV will allow the pump to cycle for a few random toilet flushes, which is not detrimental to the life of the pump. But the CSV will keep the pump running continuously during long-term uses of water as with showers and garden hoses, as that is more important to the life of the pump.
When you are using water for longer terms like a shower, the large tank will deliver varying pressure as the pump cycles from 40 to 60 PSI then drains from 60 to 40 PSI. So part of the time you are in the shower you will have 60 PSI and part of the time you will only have 40 PSI. And for longer-term uses of water like hoses or irrigation, the larger the pressure tank the fewer times the pump will cycle. But the pump will still be continually cycling on and off, which will shorten the life of the pump and system.
With the CSV and small tank, you will have a strong constant 50 PSI all the time, even if you are in the shower for a month. And a steady 50 PSI delivers much stronger shower pressure than when the pump cycles between 40 and 60 over and over, as when no CSV is used.
Most people already have 500-1500 gallons of water stored in a supply tank or get water from a well where there are millions of acre feet of water at their disposal. An 86 gallon pressure tank only holds 23 gallons of water. What good is storing another 23 gallons when you already have so much water available? 23 gallons would not even be enough for a shower. The ONLY reason for a large pressure tank is to limit the pump cycling. And when you have a Cycle Stop Valve to do that for you, a large tank is no longer needed. The Pside-Kick kit is less expensive, takes up less space, is easier to install and service if needed, and delivers stronger shower and sprinkler pressure than a large pressure tank. The big plus with the CSV is that it will adjust to any flow rate for any length of time. With a CSV there is virtually no flow rate you can use that will cause destructive cycling of pump, even if water is being used 24/7 and 365.
moxiemoney:
I guess I don't understand: if the number of times the pump cycles is the same, why would the CSV be easier on your pump than the 86 gallon tank? Unless there's a difference on how the pump turns on and off with the CSV, seems to me that unless you will use long term watering (sprinklers, long showers, etc..) frequently enough so that the number of pump cycles is higher for the 86 gal. tank vs. the CSV system, then there is no benefit. Am I missing something?
Cary Austin:
The number of cycles per day for a CSV and small tank compared to no CSV and a large tank are the same when the water is used only for the house. The main benefit is that the CSV will make water used in the house come at a constant 50 PSI, instead of going from 40 to 60 and 60 to 40 over and over again. Constant pressure makes for much better pressure in the shower, washing machines fill faster, and keeps instant water heaters from going on and off as they do when the pressure is varying from high to low continually.
And yes the CSV is beneficial to the pump and system when it does start or stop. The CSV gives the pump a mechanical soft start and soft stop. With a CSV the pump can start at 1 GPM, which reduces the starting amp load on the motor. The CSV also keeps the check valve from flying open, and eliminates the pressure surge or water hammer that is normal to a non-CSV system. Then when the pump shuts off the CSV has already reduced the flow to 1 GPM, so the check valve does not slam and cause water hammer.
Not to mention the space and heat savings of the smaller tank with a CSV verses the larger tank. Not only does the smaller tank take up much less space, but you don't have 23 gallons of cool water coming into the house several times per day, which soaks up heat from the house and waste energy.
Also with the CSV and small tank the water coming into the house is fresh from the well and hasn't been sitting in a rubber bladder getting warm for several hours.
The point is that even when water is only used for the house, there is no benefit to the larger tank. And anytime water is used for extended periods of time like filling a pool, irrigation systems, or just using a garden hose, there are considerably more benefits for using a CSV.
Wolpy:
Interesting!
mxtoomes:
hi - hope everyone at CSV is safe and healthy.
you mentioned "The CSV gives the pump a mechanical soft start and soft stop. With a CSV the pump can start at 1 GPM, which reduces the starting amp load on the motor."
would you explain how this occurs? it seems like the pressure switch in the youtube video "Pressure Tank with Cycle Stop Valve Installation Sharpie Drawing" is a basic on/off switch, and therefore would not regulated amperage.
thanks
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