HELP? Irrigation connection is at well head, nowhere near the pressure tank!

[benbuilt4u]

Im trying to install the CSV and just read it only meters the water passing through it which makes total sense. my question is how badly will this effect my irrigation system. the irrigation is tied directly in next to well head 6ft underground. but the valve will need to go in the house were main line goes into the tank. will the valve effect the turning on and off of the system? the way its setup now the line pressure drops in the house and the well pump turns on and the system runs. my thoughts are that i basically will not benefit at all from the csv on the irrigation side with no practical way to add it before irrigation system.

[Cary Austin]

That is why we make the PK125 kit.  This way the CSV can go in the well before the irrigation tee off, and the tank/switch combo can still go in the house.
http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/prod_pk125_apps.html

But you can use the CSV1A as comes in the PK1A kit at the house as long as all the irrigation zones are exactly matched to the pump.  The water can go backwards no problem through the CSV1A until the pump starts.  But once the pump starts any water used prior to the CSV would need to use all the water the pump can produce, to keep the pump from cycling.

[benbuilt4u]

dont think the PK125 will work max pressure is 60 PSI and im running 70 PSI on my csv1a. since post i did install the csv1a inside house and with a 14gal Pressure tank/ gives me 3 gal demand @ 70 PSI and so far love it but now to try and get the sprinkler figured out is driving me crazy. i guess best way is to place the csv1a out at well but no way to access it after install. even install will be extremely difficult. whats caculation for GPM drop between 60 PSI and the 70 PSI im currently running? whats the pressure drop from the valve to the house? will house even see 60psi in a 100ft run?

[Cary Austin]

The 100' run won't be a problem unless it is going uphill.  The CSV12560-1 really has less friction and reduced pressure loss than the CSV1A.  The CSV12560-1 really holds about 66 PSI until you are using more than 10 GPM.  Probably not much difference in the pressure you are seeing now.  The CSV125 will lose 1 PSI for ever 2.31 feet it is installed below ground.  So we make it regulate at 66 PSI, so you would still have 60 at the surface if you installed the CSV 14' below ground.

[benbuilt4u]

i ordered one ill pop it in the casing and hopefully it works as good as the csva1 does otherwise im in a pickle

how do you tell the old style from the new style valve?

[Cary Austin]

Since 2014 the new CSV125 valves are white with a red coupling in the middle.  The old ones were red on one end and white on the other.

[benbuilt4u]

I installed the csv125-60 and due to pressure loss could only achieve a maximun of 58 PSI at 3gpm, where as the csv1a mounted in the house next to pressure tank could produce 70 psi from 3gpm-9gpm.  i had called spoken with your wife she suggest a few things. infact had also asked you (i believe). she suggest sending out a replacement, but i knew that wasnt going fix it so i took apart your valve shimmed the spring a 1/4" and reinstalled. this change increase my pressure at the house to 70~psi at 3gpm which was great at first.

problem is the consistency of the csv125-60 is way off that of the csv1a after 3gpm i start losing PSI quickly so at 5pgm i can only sustain 63~ PSI at 7gpm only 58 PSI where as with the csv1a it never moved off 70 PSI.

tanother issue i have is the amps drawn by my pump upon start up is 6.5-6.8 amps and draws full amperage at every GPM setting except 3gpm or less and only drops to 5.6 amps (the lowest draw i can get at 1gpm or less)

my fixtures toilets,faucets draw 2.8-3gpm and my shower is 5.9-10 gpm so im seeing less then .5 amp draw difference across 10% or less of my usage not saving me any electricity during my normal usage (showers, irrigation ect) netting full power during entire usage.

i did not check amperage during csv1a install. that valve did the best job period but due to irrigation tee at well was impractical.

my issue now is im not able to flow the consistent higher GPM and PSI i was with the csv1a directly at tee in pressure tank.

the csv125 because of friction loss, head pressure distance from structure (line loss/pressure differential) due to being regulated has change the efficiency of my system down from 9 gpm at 70psi to a best of 3gpm at 70psi.

sure the valve flows 50gpm but that number only correlates if pump sizing can over come all the forces acted upon it due to pipe length, pressure setting, distance from house to well ect ect

my issue is come spring when sprinkler comes online and i can only sustain a limited GPM now through the valve at varying pressures will actualy not benefit me as much as i had thought because of zones i have being uphill and down hill they will also affect the pressures on the valve and cause so many pressure differences

maybe you have some guidance at this point. trying to actively come up with a solution that overcomes my issues without having to reconfigure an entire water system.

[Cary Austin]

I don't understand how you could have 70 PSI on the sprinklers when they were teed into the line prior to the CSV1A.  I think you  were seeing 70 PSI on a gauge after the CSV, which means everything before the CSV was seeing back pressure from the CSV, which would be much higher.

Both of those valves are normally open valves.  They are just a piece of pipe until the pressure reaches the valves set point.  And there is no reduced pressure fall off on the CSV125.  If the pressure drops below 60 with a CSV12560-1, then most likely your pump just can't build anymore pressure.

You will need to take some pictures or draw the system out so I can see where the gauge is in the system.  The CSV125 will not reduce the pressure as the flow increases, but the CSV1A will.  And from what you are saying just the opposite is happening, so we haven't figured out where the real problem is.

Amp draw of the pump for anything in the house like showers is not going to make any difference in the electric bill, as those things don't run for very long.  Small flow rates for long periods of time will use more electricity.  Make sure your sprinkler zones are close to the max flow of the pump to make it as efficient as possible.

[benbuilt4u]

i have not turned on the sprinkler system yet it is winter here, the numbers i gave are just for the house. my sprinkler system is 14 seperate zones many will run the pump wide open but some zones such as flow beds are not close enough to include them on the same zone to be able to size them to use total pump capacity.

there is a difference in pressure and gpm in my pump when it is aloud to run wide open with no incumbencies  all the way to the structure. now weith the csv125-60 effectively over 100ft from the switch and tank and there is valve restricting the flow to 70 psi. there is many forces in that pipe for that distance including head pressure. before the valve in the well I received 90 psi and could go 9gpm no problem on 119 gallon pressure tank into the structure at full volume now i receive 58 psi at full volume. this is because your valve is doing it job in the well is infact due to forces acting against it thinks its giving me 70psi.

that distance in pipe and head are the issue.

i see how this valve can and will make a low pressure system of 40 psi or even 50 psi feel like night and day. but my house system is all 1" pipe with 3/4 pipe to all fixtures for maximun flow. my softners are 1.25" im the exception. very very few systems can even handle the GPM im capable of on a residential well. i also had my well tank set at 90psi. my shower is capable of small bursts of 22gpm which was possible with large well tank with 90psi. but my low flow on the shower is 5.7 GPM and with csva1 this was excellent at 70psi solid. with the csv125-60 shimmed its 58~ which is 12 psi lower on exact same system with only change being location of valve. literally done an hour apart with no changes in variables.


i want to reinstall the csv1a and remove the csv125 but cant figure out how to get it to work with sprinkler system. im now in that pickle i mentioned a few posts ago

[Cary Austin]

You can remove the CSV125 in the well and install the CSV1A at the house.  Your irrigation lines prior to the CSV1A that already use the max flow from the pump will work fine and the pump will not cycle.  But any lines before the CSV1A that do not max out the pump will be your only issue as they will cause cycling. 

[benbuilt4u]

ok im going switch back and then come spring see what happens when irrigation is running. sent back my csva1 now just need buy one to reinstall