Author Topic: question about wiring the csv  (Read 308 times)

esskapee

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question about wiring the csv
« on: July 02, 2022, 11:37:22 PM »
   My issue- due to the severe drought in Calif. the recovery rate of the water table isn't enough to refill the tank to shut off the pump. So my pump keeps running and loses its prime also. I now have to turn off the pump, wait a little, prime the line, and turn on the pump again, which will finish refilling and shut off as normal. This doesn't happen normally, but it was an issue last summer for about 3 weeks.

     My system- 56' well, foot valve and venturi/ejector @ 52', water table @ 22' normally, 2 line 220v jet pump, 1100 gallon storage tank with float switches, 2 pressure tanks, and a booster pump controlled by its own pressure switch. The jet pump is controlled by the 2 float switches. There is a pressure switch on the jet pump but it doesn't turn it on or off.

   Your wiring diagram shows a connection to the pressure switch. My pressure switch has nothing to do with turning the jet pump on or off, as it is controlled by the float switches. How would I wire it to shut off the jet pump? Basically bypassing the float switches, specifically the upper float switch which turns off the pump. Or would wiring the cycle sensor to the switch do that?

Cary Austin

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2022, 09:24:53 AM »
The well pump should not be controlled by a pressure switch, only the float switches in the storage tank.  But the booster pump should be controlled by a pressure switch.  The pressure switch on the booster pump can be connected to a float switch in the storage tank as well.  But the pressure switch should have control unless the level in the storage tank gets below the float switch.

You can use a Cycle Sensor to protect the well pump from running dry.  But you will have to re-primes every time is goes off on DRY run condition.  You can shorten the distance for the float switch in the storage tank to put less water in with each pump cycle.  Then maybe the Cycle Sensor will not have to shut the pump off for running dry and you would not have to re-prime every time.  You should leave the Cycle Sensor re-start delay on 000 as that means manual reset, so it doesn't try to start the pump when it is not primed.

esskapee

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2022, 02:09:07 PM »
   The well pump should not be controlled by a pressure switch, only the float switches in the storage tank.
    - Yes it is only controlled by the float switches. But there is what looks like a pressure switch on the well pump (see picture). Is this the pressure switch that I would wire the CSV to?
  But the booster pump should be controlled by a pressure switch.
     - It is.
  The pressure switch on the booster pump can be connected to a float switch in the storage tank as well.
   - It isn't as far as I can tell. The float switches only control the well pump.
 But the pressure switch should have control unless the level in the storage tank gets below the float switch.
    - I don't think the pressure switch on the booster pump has any control of the well pump, only the float switches.

Cary Austin

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2022, 11:09:08 AM »
The pressure switch could have been left on the well pump but has been bypassed by wiring around it inside.  There will only be wires on the middle two posts if this is the case. No wires on the outside two post?

If the pressure switch on the booster pump is not wired with a pump down float switch in the bottom of the tank, it can be destroyed from running dry if the storage tank runs out.  You can use a Cycle Sensor wired to the pressure switch instead of a pump down float switch, but either would be good protection for the booster pump.

The well pump certainly needs a Cycle Sensor to protect it from running dry if it is a weak producing well.

There are no wires to the CSV.  Just plumb it between the pump and pressure switch/pressure tank and it works on pressure.

esskapee

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2022, 10:04:43 PM »
What CSV are you talking about that has no wiring needed? Here's what I'm seeing on the CSV site with this diagram - https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/cycle-sensor-pump-monitor-wiring-diagram
  Step 1: Mount the Cycle Sensor
Mount the Cycle Sensor in the desired location and wire the unit according to the appropriate wiring diagram on the following pages. Make sure all local, state, and national electrical codes are followed. While setting the Cycle Sensor, to prevent electrical shock, do not touch the wiring terminals or electric components. Touch the control buttons only.
     This does not get cut into the water line at all.

 If the pressure switch on the booster pump is not wired with a pump down float switch in the bottom of the tank, it can be destroyed from running dry if the storage tank runs out.  You can use a Cycle Sensor wired to the pressure switch instead of a pump down float switch, but either would be good protection for the booster pump.
   This is not a concern or a reason to buy 2 CSVs. In fact 1 CSV is more than I need for my well pump because I can't make use of all the cool automatic stuff it can do.
   You've read my thread topic on Terry Love's site. Please read today's update on what it is that I simply need to do in the rare case that my well can't produce. There has to be something that simply shuts off my well pump, and does nothing more, that's not 300 dollars, and needs to be wired to read my pressure tanks operation to somehow shut off my well pump if it ever runs dry.


Cary Austin

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2022, 12:23:42 PM »
First a CSV is a Cycle Stop Valve and you have it confused with a Cycle Sensor. The CSV is a simple valve, no electric to it, that delivers constant 50 PS pressure from your booster pump instead of it cycling on and off at 60 and 40 over and over. But you can let the pump cycle itself to death and still have water as a CSV is not required.

The Cycle Sensor is just an electronic sensor that looks for a dry well or a rapid cycle and shuts the pump off if that happens. You really can't get much simpler than that at any price. There are other devices that do that like the Pumptec and the Symcom, but they do have other bells and whistles and I don't know how much they cost.

The Cycle Sensor would be wired to the float switch on the well pump and the pressure switch on the booster pump. I don't know of any other way to do the well pump. But you can use a pump down float switch instead of a Cycle Sensor to protect the booster pump from running dry.

Hope that helps.

esskapee

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2022, 11:40:47 PM »
yes thank you, that helps with the confusion I had between the 2 devices.

  But this now becomes my interest and my questions concerning the cycle sensor. You said - "The Cycle Sensor would be wired to the float switch on the well pump and the pressure switch on the booster pump. I don't know of any other way to do the well pump. But you can use a pump down float switch instead of a Cycle Sensor to protect the booster pump from running dry."

  I'm mainly concerned with keeping my well pump from running when the well 'runs dry', which is NOT something that regularly happens, it rarely has happened over the 60 year life of the well, and was an issue late last summer for a few weeks because of the severe drought in California with almost no rain. My well couldn't supply the 350 gallons from 'pump on' to 'pump off' in one shot. Turning off the well pump and waiting an hour, re-priming and turning it back on and it would fill the rest of the 350g and raise the float switch to turn off the pump.
   ""The Cycle Sensor would be wired to the float switch on the well pump and the pressure switch on the booster pump."
  -- Why does it have to be wired to both?
   *** MY BOOSTER PUMP & WELL PUMP(FLOAT SW) ARE ON DIFFERENT BREAKERS...  NOTHING that the booster does about pressure has ANY connection to the well pump turning on or off. They work independently of each other . Monitoring the booster pump with CSV  is about 1% of a concern and even less of a possibility as long as my well pump is working.
    Can I wire the CSV to the well pump ONLY? In the switch box on the well pump I assume, on whatever contacts the romex is wired to. To monitor and shut off the well pump if ever needed?
    Unless it is mandatory for shutting off my well pump, I have no desire or real need to run a new wire in a new weatherproof conduit to the pressure pump switch 20 feet away.
  ** SEE PICTURES**

Cary Austin

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2022, 06:38:50 AM »
Sure you can just use a Cycle Sensor to protect just the well pump.  But if the well pump shuts off and the storage tank runs dry????

esskapee

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2022, 02:31:27 PM »
   But if the well pump shuts off and the storage tank runs dry

  Extremely doubtful that would ever happen. 1100 gallon tank, 'full' at 950g. Float switch turns well pump ON at 600g, and OFF at 950g.
  When the very few times that the well can't supply 350g,it 'runs dry' at about 750-800g and I shut off the well pump.  I wait about an hour to re-prime and re-start the pump to continue filling to 950g then shuts off.

   I don't think I could ever use 750 gallons in an hour to drain the tank, before turning pump on and filling it.

   If that ever does happen, that is when I will spend the money , time, and effort  to run a wire in new conduit to the booster pump

Cary Austin

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2022, 02:54:07 PM »
I only bring it up because I have heard the story a few hundred times in the last 50 years. "Well pump was off for several days and we didn't know it.  Now booster pump is melted down."

I have helped people do all kinds of things from turning on a light so they can see the well pump is running to Wifi controls that call their phone when anything goes wrong.  But the fail safe is to have a fail safe that protects your pump no matter what.

Murphy's Law usually rules.  If it can happen, it will.  Still, most people are out of water and looking at a melted pump before they order a Cycle Sensor to go with the new pump.

esskapee

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2022, 02:24:13 PM »
yes i agree, and i will hook it up to my booster pump when i can afford the extra costs of conduit and connections. But right now i'm trying to find the money to buy a censor unit itself. My well running dry is my main concern. As of now I am able to fill my tank even if I am using water at the same time. It's not as bad as it was last summer in late August, when i couldn't fill the tank normally. We got more rain this year, so I'm hedging my bets thinking that I won't have any issues.
   That's the best i can do right now. I have a couple months to go before it might be an issue. By then I will at least have a censor unit installed to monitor the well pump.

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Re: question about wiring the csv
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2022, 08:53:08 AM »
The Cycle Sensor can he installed a foot from the breaker, a foot before the pressure switch, or anywhere in between.  Shouldn't need but a foot of wire and conduit to install.