Author Topic: Constant Pressure Pump (won't last?)  (Read 6238 times)

Cary Austin

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Constant Pressure Pump (won't last?)
« on: June 18, 2008, 04:07:23 PM »
Cary Austin
I hate to be the one to say this but, it is not the sediment that will shorten the life of the pump system, it is the variable speed or "constant pressure pump" itself. Over 15 years experience with these has shown me that the average life of all "constant pressure pumps" is less than 4 years. Here is a quote from someone who has seen the problems from a neighbors point of view.

Home Owner #1
"Again, I really appreciate your help and am convinced that a constant pressure mechanical system using a cycle stop valve rather than a VFD system is the way to go especially after understanding how each system works. I think I told you we have friends who are on their third VFD or "constant pressure pump" system in 4 years at the tune of $1100 a crack each time the VFD control panel got zapped."

Home Owner #2
This is very interesting information about the life expectancy of the constant pressure pumps. I had not heard this before. However, it brings a different light on several things that have happened that I thought were disturbingly coincidental.  Within about the first year and one-half after installation of my system, both the original controller and the pump had to be replaced (at different times, but under warranty). My neighbor, who had one of these pumps (smaller hp) put in a new well about 6 months after my job, told me a few weeks ago that the same well people had to replace his pump (under warranty). Now, it appears that's not a coincidence after all (but still disturbing).

Cary Austin
Ah ha! So you didn't really enjoy 2.5 years of constant pressure? This is not unusual, it is the norm. If they can get through the warranty period with only one or two free replacements, just think how much they will make off of you when the warranty is over. Every year and a half or so after the warranty, they get to sell you another $1,100.00 controller. I would try to get it warrantied again before the term is over. Then I would insist on using the warranty credit to replace everything with a standard, longer lasting pump.

A Cycle Stop Valve will give you the same "constant pressure" from a standard pump, and will triple the life of the pump system. The average life of a standard submersible pump is 7 years. Using a CSV to deliver "constant pressure" and reduce the cycling will triple the life expectancy to about 20 years. This is why pump manufacturers recommend you use a Variable Speed Pump instead of a Cycle Stop Valve.

Your pump man is probably as reputable as you say, and just hasn't yet realized his part in this scheme. The pump manufactures are ruining the reputation of honest pump installers. They will tell the pump installer that the VFD will make pumps last longer, and enhance their reputation as the smartest pump man in the country. When they start having problems, the manufacturer says they have a "new" controller that will solve the problem. About the second or third "new" controller they use, the installer starts to understand that they have been hoodwinked. By this time the home owner is doubting that the pump installer has any idea what he is doing, and usually finds another pump installer. It had taken the original pump installer many years to attain his reputation and your business, and only a few VFD's to lose all of it. The manufacturer does not care. They know you will call another pump installer and he will try to sell you the latest and greatest of their so called "constant pressure pumps".

Here is a link to a quote from another reputable pump installer. It just takes most installers a few years to come to the same conclusion.

http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/references_4.html

Cary Austin

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Constant Pressure Pump (won't last?)
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 09:12:30 AM »
From the Homeowner;

You are calling it as it happened. Wow. What great insight into this situation. When the controller went out about 6 months after installation, I was informed that the company had a problem with the previous type of controller and so they put out a new one, but I must have gotten one of the old ones by mistake. Hmmm. So, then, I supposedly got one of the genuine "new" ones. They have had to adjust something related to a pressure switch; other than that the controller seems to have worked (so far). Oooof! This does not bode well for this system. I am glad I still have the old well. That Jacuzzi pump is 18 years old. Thanks for this information !!

Cary Austin

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Constant Pressure Pump (won't last?)
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 09:13:49 AM »
Response;

OK, a Sub Drive 150 runs a 3 HP motor and usually has a 1.5 HP pump end.  So you might call it a 3 X 1.5.   The controller speeds up the motor from the standard 3450 RPM to about 4700 RPM, so they can use a 1.5 HP pump and get 3 HP performance.  Increasing the speed of the pump is one problem with these type pumps, because every time you double the RPM, the pump wears out 4 times faster.   So pumps will not last as long spinning 4700 RPM as they do when spinning the standard 3450 RPM.

The next problem with the Sub Drive or Mono Drive is the little switch.  This system never sets the speed of the pump as needed.  The little switch basically starts and stops the pump rapidly and continuously to match the flow being used.  The switch makes it work much faster and eliminates some of the problems associated with "pressure transducers" that are used on nearly every other brand of variable speed pump.  The problem is that this switch makes and brakes about 2,000,000 times per month.  Nothing can survive two million changes of state per month.  About three months of continuous use and the switch is toast.  So if you only use your pump for an average of 4 hours per day, then every 18 months this switch, controller, or both are going to fail.

Another problem is the controller itself.  I will bet your first controller was painted black.  Then the replacement or "new" controller was painted white, supposedly to keep it cooler.  These controllers produce and waste a lot of heat.  The heat will destroy them.  They are only rated to 50C ro 122 F temperature, and almost any well house will get this hot in the summer.  Especially when the controller and it's fan are adding more heat inside the pump house.  The lint and dirt that is drawn in by the cooling fan also increase the heat and shortens the life of the controller.  Ever seen how much dirt collects in a computer sitting in your study for a couple of years?  This is nothing compared to the dirt the controller picks up out in the garage or well house.  Even the "new" white controllers are turning black, and making the wall they are mounted on turn black.

A better analogy of the difference between a so called "constant pressure pump", and a standard pump system using a CSV to produce "Constant Pressure" follows.  When there are two or more ways to accomplish the same task, the simplest way is always the best way.  (See; Occam's Razor)

NASA needed a pen for astronauts to take notes in space.  They needed the pen to work in zero gravity or several G's.  The pen needed to work in absolute vacuum or extremely high pressure.  It needed to work in sub zero temperature or extremely hot temperature.  It had to work right side up or upside down.  Development of this pen cost millions of dollars, and the pens were so sophisticated that each pen cost a million dollars to produce.  The Russians had the same requirements and they discovered that they got better performance at a fraction of the cost, using a #2 lead pencil.  The variable speed pump is the NASA pen, and the CSV is the pencil.  After all, we are just pumping water, a computer just makes it more expensive and less dependable?

If the "skin effect" from the variable speed controller has not caused a hole in the drop pipe, then your sediment issue is a whole other problem.  We use a gravel pack in the well that is almost as small as sand.  This filters out the dirt and doesn't let it enter the well.  However, some sediment is so fine that is floats in the water and even a small gravel pack won't filter it out.  Many times this can be pumped clean but, you have to pump the well hard, then let it recoup, and pump the well hard again.  Sometimes this has to be done numerous times to get out the light sediment.