Pumptech CSV setup issues

[IGR]

I have a 2 hp 35 gpm pump sitting in a cistern, 20 gallon(total) PT set at 55psi, csv16, pressure switch at 60-80 and 5 hydrants. I just installed the system but when trying to calibrate the pumptech I'm having issues.

Main windings:
1 hydrant open: 10.5A
2 hydrants open: 11.5A (not a typo)
3 hydrants open: 10.5 A (can only hold 40psi)
All closed. Refilling PT: 5-6A
The pumptech trips an overload at 125% snapshot value and under load at 75%. Manual says to take snapshot of load at full water flow. When I do this everything runs fine until the hydrants are shut and CSV is filling the PT at 5gpm. The motor only draws about 6A and trips underload protection.

No adjustments on pumptech. What to do?

[Cary Austin]

I am sorry but a Pumptec just will not work with a good pump and a CSV.  It is a good pump because the amps drop from 11.5 to 6 when using very little water.  If you "snapshot" the Pumptec at high flow, it will trip out on low amps at low flow.  If you "snapshot" the Pumptec at low flow, it will trip out on high amps at high flow.

That is why we made the Cycle Sensor.  It has an infinitely adjustable settings so it WILL work with a good pump and a CSV.

[IGR]

That's very unfortunate as now I have an expensive control that's useless. You might want to be more forthcoming regarding incompatibility with industry standard companion products. A disclaimer or note on the product page would have saved me over double the price of your valve. The only time I've seen this mentioned is now, within the literature of your own control solution obviously designed to walk around the issue.

[Cary Austin]

I am sorry but it is Frankin who should be more forthcoming with the way a Pumptec works or does not work.  They should make it clear that the Pumptec will not work with a Ball Valve, Dole Valve, Cycle Stop Valve, or any of the multiple devices that reduce the amp draw.  My product (CSV) is working flawlessly.  The pump is running from 11.5 to 6 amps, which means it is a very good pump. 

The Pumptec is your problem.  But if you call Franklin they will tell you that the CSV is the problem because the amps are dropping too much.  The CSV eliminates cycling, makes the motor pull fewer amps, run cooler, use less energy, and last much longer.  Those are all good things.  If the Pumptec won’t let that happen it needs to be thrown away.  Sorry.

We mention this many times in our web page.  It is Franklin who needs to explain the inadequacy of their Pumtec.

PS;  I do not consider the Pumptec an “industry standard”.  It is a proprietary product that is designed NOT to work with beneficial products from other companies.

[IGR]

I agree that the CSV is working as intended and exactly why I purchased your product. Franklin does note that their product does not work with a dole valve.. I simply didn't know what a dole valve was or realize the similarity to CSV.

When I said industry standard I'm talking about the fact that almost every pump I've seen has a protection device on it. As admitted by yourself, most are not adjustable and/or compatible with CSV creating an opportunity to introduce a new product (cycle sensor) to the market.

If this is the case, it would save otherwise happy customers time, money and grief by simply adding a disclaimer or note on the CSV product page that it is NOT compatible with most pump protection devices. There is no negative result by saying this besides helping a customer from making a mistake. If anything, it could help cycle sensor sales. If this information was more readily available to me, I would have likely purchased your control with the CSV at the same time.

What is the warranty on the cycle sensor?

[IGR]

Also, regarding pump cooling at low flow.. Franklin states that the 2hp motor I'm using does not require a sleeve up to about 86* water temp. I take it that the motor is efficient enough where heat produced is not a problem provided satisfactory ambient water temperature. As franklin does not recommend cycle stop valves, if the motor can cool itself, without sleeve, drawing 11.5 amps is it correct to say that its fine under lower load zero flow conditions?

It seems they contradict themselves regarding flow/cooling. At least on the 2hp Super Stainless series motors.

[Cary Austin]

that it (CSV) is NOT compatible with most pump protection devices.

It is a little confusing because with pumps that are not as good at reducing the amp draw, a Pumptec WILL work.  Some pumps that are not as good only drop from 11.5 to maybe 9 amps, so the 25% thing that can’t be changed in the Pumptec is OK.  Also a few other devices that have an adjustable underload will work with a CSV.

What is the warranty on the cycle sensor?

12 months from installation or 24 months from manufacture.

Also, regarding pump cooling at low flow. Franklin states that the 2hp motor I'm using does not require a sleeve up to about 86* water temp. I take it that the motor is efficient enough where heat produced is not a problem provided satisfactory ambient water temperature.

It is not that the motor is “efficient enough”, it is that the motor has been shortened up so much that the suction is not far from the end of the motor, so it should still get some circulation of water no matter the inflow location in the well.

 

As franklin does not recommend cycle stop valves, if the motor can cool itself, without sleeve, drawing 11.5 amps is it correct to say that its fine under lower load zero flow conditions?

Yes the low amps means the motor has been de-rated so much that it can be safely cooled while pumping hot water, or very little cool water.  Some may even be OK at zero flow, but we do not recommend less than 1 GPM.

It seems they contradict themselves regarding flow/cooling. At least on the 2hp Super Stainless series motors.

It just stands to reason that since flow past the motor is needed for proper cooling, a shroud would always be a good thing, and it is.  Remember Franklin makes motors, so all they really want is for it to last just past the warranty period.

The CSV is a very simple product but the explanation for how it works with pumps can be complicated.  We have been trying for 22 years to gather and post all the information needed.  Just like this, after all these years there are still things comes up that we need to add.  Sorry for any inconvenience.  As you can see I posted even more on this topic today.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention.