Pressure Tank Mounting Position

[Elton Noway]

Sorry... I'm aware similar questions on this subject have been discussed in several ways in various forums but before moving on... I'd appreciate some additional professional insight before proceeding.

Eight years ago I installed a PK1W (Pside-kick Kit) which included the original CSV1W valve.  Per the instructions and in reading numerous forums it became clear the pside-kick pressure tank could be mounted in any position (horizontal, vertical, tank inlet up or tank inlet down. Based on the manifold that came with my kit and the working area I had... I installed the tank vertically with the water inlet at the top and pressure valve fitting at the bottom. Last week I replaced the well pump (18 years old but stopped working due to a break in the electrical wiring going down the well) Because I replaced the pump I also replace the pressure switch. The CSV valve is still working fine but I decided to also replace the pressure tank as well since I was doing an overhaul. At the time I attempted to place my order the Wellxtrol 4.4 gallon (WX-102) it was on back order so I ordered the 7.6 gallon (WX-103) instead. It has the the exact same size fittings and same diameter as the the original 4.4 gallon tank in service now (only difference is its about 10 inches taller) Anyway... I  figured swapping the tanks would be a piece of cake. Unscrew the exiting tank, screw in the new tank, check/adjust the tank pressure as needed and be done. Here's my dilemma... per the Wellxtrol installation instructions that came with the tank it "must be" installed vertically with the water inlet at the bottom    

Granted I could make a relatively simple modification to the plumbing and mount the tank as they suggest... but from a physics standpoint (as far as I see it) the air in the tank will still exert pressure on the bladder regardless of how the tank is oriented. I also figured... by installing it the same way as the current pside-kick tank with the pressure valve on the bottom I could easily tell if the bladder failed by the presence of water exiting the valve when depressed ... or even use the valve at the bottom to drain any possible condensation that might form in the air chamber.

NET: Warranty issues aside... is there any valid argument - difference in operation .... or facts behind why I should install it as they require with the water inlet at the bottom and pressure valve at the top? 

[Cary Austin]

Never knew it said that.  Been installing them that way for years.  That red one you took out was a WX102, and it lasted how long?  Wouldn't think there is much difference in a 103.  We use up to 10 gallon size tanks that way all the time.  I always try to put the inlet down if there is a sediment problem.  Otherwise like you, I don't know what difference it would make.

[Elton Noway]

Actually the WX102 is still working fine after 8 years but since I've read a few threads about issues with the earlier WX102's I figured I'd just swap it now during my rebuild rather wait for it to fail. (Getting close to the age where stuff like this is only getting more difficult.) 

Wow... never thought about a bottom inlet from the benefit of combating a potential sediment problem. Definitely something to think about. Thanks.

Hmmm. . as it stands now with my current configuration the inlet of my pressure tank is only about 6 inches from the CSV valve. If I were to re-plumb the tank it so I could invert it and place the inlet at the bottom I'd have to add about two feet of 3/4" copper. Easy enough... but could that create any issues with the tank being further from the CSV? (e.g., require any changes to pressure settings, induce water hammer etc.) Only asking because, if memory serves me correctly I believe I read for the ideal installation you should place the pressure tank as close as possible to the CSV. Not sure if adding two feet would be a problem or not. As always... I appreciate your feedback.

[Cary Austin]

No, the smaller CSV's can be a long ways from the pressure tank.  What is important is the pressure switch stay close to the pressure tank.  You can move the tank as far from the CSV as you want, just put a tee under the pressure tank and move the switch to the tank.

[Elton Noway]

Got it...Thank You! Appreciate the clarification. Will follow up on the outcome once I decide on how I'm going to approach the task.

[Cary Austin]

Actually the PK1W is like the PK125, it was designed so the CSV could go at the well before any hydrants or tees, and the manifold with the than and switch can be installed at the house a long ways from the well head and CSV.

[Elton Noway]

Great... I now have a much better understanding on the flexibility of the CSV valve location. However... knowing this, since I installed the a PK1W kit as shown in the left half of the attached photo... if I add two feet of pipe off the manifold so I can situate the tank inlet at the bottom (as shown in the crude representation on the right side of the photo) ...  would it still be recommended that I add a T-fitting at the bottom of the tank and relocate the pressure off the T ... or would it be okay in its current location as shown?  (... dotted line represents pipe running down the wall behind the tank) 

[Cary Austin]

Should be OK.  You won't know until you try it.  If the switch is too far from the tank it will bounce on/off rapidly on pump start.

[Elton Noway]

Hi Cary... I wanted to followup on this thread in the event anyone stumbles across it with a similar situation or question. I finally got around to replacing the pressure tank and heeded your comment on the advantage of a bottom mounted inlet and its self sand purging benefit. As shown in the photo I have a filter "after" the pressure tank. I change the filter every 3 to 6 months depending on how busy my life gets. Although I have a sand separator prior to the tank I always get small accumulations of sand in the filter, about a teaspoon or so every filter change. Your comment indicated to me I must also be accumulating sand in the pressure tank! Sure enough... although the original tank that came with the CSV Pside-Kick was still functioning, pulling it down revealed I had about a gallon of sand in the tank. Yikes!

Good news... adding the couple feet of plumbing so I could invert and install the new tank inlet at the bottom did not introduce any problems (i.e, no bounce on/off rapidly on pump start.) FYI: The angle of the photo makes it appear as though the new plumbing will interfere with access to the pressure valve on top of the tank. In reality the plumbing exiting the manifold is actually at a 45 degree angle to the wall so the pressure valve is a good two to three inches right of the plumbing. Used a HydroClaw bracket to support the additional weight. I left a couple inches in the drop off the bottom of the tank inlet so I could reach the union without interference as well as being able to loosen the union and drop the tank without the inlet pipe being in the way. That said... I'm sure there are probably any number of better ways to mount the new tank... but I'm not a plumber... just a everyday DIY'er.  It works great... and that's all that matters to wife!     
 
As always... thanks for all the advice and great product support over the years.

[Cary Austin]

Thanks Man!
That looks really good.  I hope the tank being below the mainline doesn't cause the pipe going to the tank to clog with sand?  If the tank flushes quickly enough when using large amounts of water it should flush it out ok.  Just want to mention that you have a PK1W that we no longer offer.  This was replaced with the PK1A.  Even with all that sand the system is still working and we haven't sold a PK1W since 2013.  Means it has already lasted at least 6 years or more, even with the sand problem.
Thanks for the update!
Cary

[Elton Noway]

Yep... I'll admit when completing this plumbing change it entered my mind sand might be able to settle in the line below the tank but decided to take a chance based on several changes I made. The first change was done several years ago... i.e., installing the Sandmaster. It reduced the sand considerably and I no longer have large amounts of sand accumulating in my toilet tanks as mentioned but its not 100% effective since I was still finding small amounts in my filter. 

As mentioned in an earlier post I installed a new well pump in June. Years ago I read somewhere (probably in a reply from you to a homeowner) that continual excessive dirt/sand in the water may be a result of the pump sitting on or near the bottom of the well.  The suggestion was to try raising the pump a few feet or so and see if the situation improves. Back then I didn't feel like going thru the hassle and hoped the sand separator would do the trick.

As long as I was replacing the pump I decided it would be the perfect time to raise the pump so I pulled it up about 8 feet. I also installed a new 40/60 pressure switch and raised it to 50/70. I then adjusted the pressure tank to 48psi thinking the additional pressure "might" help to move any sand that may accumulate. I'll be monitoring it off and on. Time will tell. Wishing now I had thought about installing a hose bib below the tank so I could flush the line periodically. Oh well... worse case I end up having to drop the entire manifold assembly a couple feet so I can get the pressure tank above the manifold... ugh. Just FYI: This system is mounted on a wall in a crawl space under the house with 5' 10"of clearance. Back in 2010 when I installed the original Pside-Kick kit... I intentionally mounted everything high on the wall just under the floor joist so I could stand up to do normal inspections and maintenance.

As to the CSV valve itself, the CSV1W its still working great, however in the event I eventually need to replace it, and with consideration to my existing installation, I'm thinking the CSV1A should  pretty much be a direct swap leaving the 1/2" and 3/4" ports plugged since they won't be needed with the current manifold setup. Correct? Better alternatives?

[Cary Austin]

You should get many more years from that CSV1W.  But yes it can easily be replaced with the CSV1A if needed.  A hose bib in that line below the tank would be a good idea if you ever have the plumbing apart again.  Thanks

[Elton Noway]

You should get many more years from that CSV1W.  But yes it can easily be replaced with the CSV1A if needed.  A hose bib in that line below the tank would be a good idea if you ever have the plumbing apart again.  Thanks

Hi Cary...
Just wanted to check in with the latest update on my system. After 11 years of faithful service I opted to replace my aging CSV1W. Here's the deal. A couple of weeks ago I was working in the crawl space while the wife was taking a shower and I hear the click of my 50/70 pressure switch and noticed the pump turned off. Every component in the system was new except for the CSV. Tank pressure was pre-charged to the correct setting so I made a couple attempts to adjust the csv. Once set to where I wanted it and locking the valve I notice with water running...  pressure would climb "very slowly". Instead of remaining steady at 68psi... over a period of about 5 minutes pressure would climb high enough to trip the high pressure setting of the switch and turn off the pump. Although I can't say it was the valve, I figured after 11 years of passing grit and dirt it may be worn so I went to your website and ordered a CSV1A with instructions to have it preset to 65psi.

NET: All is good. The new valve arrived 4 days after placing the order!  Sweet! Also sweet… although I wasn’t looking forward to the task of replacing the valve and what might be involved… your previous response “it can easily be replaced” was dead-on. It couldn’t have gone better as the new valve fit in the same location and space as the old one and I didn’t need to buy any new fittings and the pressure setting was spot on! Cool. Pressure once again holding steady for as long as I let the water run with no pump cycling. 

Last: I followed the last bit of advice from your reply. It’s been two years since I installed the new tank below the mainline and have never had any issues with sand or the tank clogging BUT… since I had everything dismantled I went with your suggestion and put a hose bib in the line below the tank. When I drained the tank to drop it (about 7 gal of water) there was a minuscule amount of sand… maybe a teaspoon… but adding a bib sounded like the right thing to do. (better safe than sorry) Granted the bib install is not the prettiest mod but I was to lazy to do a complete design change (I simply replaced a two inch inch section of pipe with a t-fitting). Anyway... as always thanks for all the help, support and a great product. 
       

[Cary Austin]

Thank you!