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Valve Tech / Fast cycling?
« Last post by encoad on Today at 12:23:14 AM »
I have a CSV1A and 0.75hp pump.  It's been working perfectly for about 7 years now.

Recently I noticed the pump has been cycling every few seconds with the pressure flapping from low to high and not staying constant.

Is this indicative of a dead 4gallon pressure tank?  Or should I be looking at the CSV itself?  No changes have been made to the system.
Applications / Re: Advice needed
« Last post by Cary Austin on January 13, 2022, 11:40:39 AM »
It would be easier to return the PK1A and order a PK1AM if you haven't already installed it?  But this isn't the first time this has happened.  We can also send you a manifold and other parts needed to convert to the PK1AM if you like.  Just call Sam or Corye at 805-885-4445.  They will talk you through it.
Applications / Re: Advice needed
« Last post by john98266 on January 13, 2022, 11:10:30 AM »
THANKS for the reply!  When I purchased my CSV, I planned on building a separate well house and so I purchased a PK1A kit.  Now, I am planning to put the water works in my shop and realize that I should have purchased a PK1AM.  How can I purchase a manifold or is there another solution?  And while we're talking, I'm going to need to install a valve control box or similar to access the CSV.  My frost line is 18" so I was thinking a 24" high box would work nicely.  Any suggestions for where to find a good one?
Applications / Re: Advice needed
« Last post by Cary Austin on January 12, 2022, 02:29:48 PM »
If you put the Pk1A with tank and everything at the well you can tee off in any direction and have as many hydrants as you want in any location.  You can also just put the CSV1A part of the kit at the well, and the tank and switch can be at the house or shop if yo like.  As long as the power comes from the pressure switch to the pump, the tank and switch can be a long way from the pump and CSV.

We make a kit for both cases.  The PK1A is what you need if the tank, switch, and CSV are first in line.  The PK1AM has an extra manifold so the tank and switch can be mounted by themselves at the house or barn by the electric line.
Applications / Advice needed
« Last post by john98266 on January 12, 2022, 11:46:21 AM »
Hi there!  I have decided on and have purchased a CSV for my well pump installation.  That said, I need some advice.  My well is located about 300' from my home and shop.  I plan to run 1-1/4" PEX from the well to the shop and then from the shop to the house.  The shop is being built 1st.  Anyway, I am still undecided on where to put the water works.  I can build a well house near the well or I can hook everything up in the shop.  If I build a wellhouse, I can put hydrants in wherever I please but if I put it in the shop, I believe that creates issues with hydrants.  Or does it?  What if I were to install the CSV at the well/pitless adapter?  Would that work?  I have never had a well, let alone hooked on up myself and want to do this right.  Thanks for the advice!
There is nothing, especially a VFD, that can make a 3HP pump produce more than 3HP worth of water.  There is at least 5% inherent losses in a VFD, which increases slip in the motor, which decreases the max amount a pump can produce.  In most cases, the VFD will produce less water from the same pump as a CSV.  It just can't get to max speed because of the increased slip. Also, because of these inherent losses the minimum flow needed to cool a pump controlled by a VFD is much higher than when using a CSV.  So the pump would actually cycle more for house uses less than about 5 GPM with a VFD, as that is how much it takes to keep the motor cool.

One advantage of the CSV is that you can bypass it.  For zones that are large enough to keep the pump from cycling, just tee off before the CSV.  However, on smaller zones like number 3 and 4 the pump will cycle on/off, as those zones are not using the max flow the pump can produce.  And even though the CSV is not preventing the pump from cycling when using less than 3 GPM, it is still cycling much slower with the CSV filling the tank at 3 GPM than without a CSV where the pump would fill the tank at 40 GPM.

If you can make all your zones large enough to keep the pump from cycling off, then you can tee off to all the irrigation after the CSV.  Then the pressure to the  heads is only limited by the amount the pump can produce while working with no losses from any type of control.  If you drill out your "water saver" washers on the showerheads from 2.5 to 3 GPM, the showers will see could strong constant pressure from the CSV as well.  I find with the so called "water saver" washer drilled out people can get the soap washed off quicker and actually do not use any more water during showers.  They just take quicker showers.

In your case the CSV is not so much for delivering constant pressure to all the zones, but more to keep the pump from cycling itself to death on the smaller zones, as all the zones are not matched to the pump.
Yes the sprinklers are shooting far enough.  I guess this thread was more about optimizing my system.  By that I mean getting a more optimum pressure at the heads (better distribution, coverage, etc.) while also trying to get constant pressure in the house more than I previously did which was never lol.  The CSV12560-3 has done a better job of those things but I'm not sure if it's worth the extra maintenance and long term expense.  I may just see how long it lasts and go from there.

I think the bottom line is I'm likely on the edge of what my pump can produce flow wise and that is leading to the CSV not being much help at giving me constant pressure for most irrigation zones.  It also doesn't give me constant pressure inside the house during most uses.  Really the CSV is only helping give constant pressure at 60PSI on maybe 3-4 zones and inside the house when multiple fixtures are being used.  The pressure drop of the CSV may not be worth the help of providing such limited constant pressure...again this is due to my pump struggling not the CSV. 

I can't help but wonder in my case, if a variable speed pump would be the best answer.  I could eliminate the CSV thus gaining the pressure drop caused by the valve. That would further optimize my irrigation and get more zones closer to the preferred 40 PSI.  It would also create a constant pressure inside the house at most or all flow rates ie. only 1 fixture being used.
I was  guessing 7 PSI on the large zone, but gauges are good at lying to you.  Lol.  All that matters is if the sprinklers are shooting far enough?
The tank is actually a few feet higher than the well.  I don't have 45 GPM in any zone.  Knowing the pressure gauges have some inaccuracies leads me back to the tank pressure gauge reading with Zone 7 running.  With the CSV2W the reading was 42 PSI.  With the CSV12560-3 it was 46 PSI. 

Should the CSV12560-3 only made a 4 PSI difference in your opinion?

At steady state the gauge before and after the CSV should be the same.  So, yes one or both of those gauges is off, but that is normal.  Swap those two gauges and you will get a much better reading.  Probably much closer to the 7 PSI loss you should have with a flow rate of about 45 GPM.  The gauge at the house is probably off as well, but you will gain 1 PSI for every 2.31' in elevation drop from the well to the tank.  6 PSI difference would mean your well is 13' higher than the tank at the house.
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