Recent Posts

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81
Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Tylerr on August 18, 2023, 12:18:54 PM »
Thank you for the thorough response.  Very good info for me to use.  I suspected what you mentioned about the Littlefuse, and turned the sensitivity almost all the way down on it.  I will turn the CSV down slightly also.  Thank you again!
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Valve Tech / Calculating pressure
« Last post by Tony on August 18, 2023, 10:41:05 AM »
Question:

How do I determine the maximum pressure in the line before the CSV (i.e. between the pump and CSV) in a system with a 1/2HP 12GPM pump set at 65ft depth with the CSV set to 50PSI with shower running?
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Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Cary Austin on August 10, 2023, 08:08:01 AM »
Glad you are happy.  Thanks for the video.  Very informative.  I have a few comments or suggestions.  The amp drop is determined by the type/brand pump you have.  I saw your drop from 9.3 to 7,7 amps, which is about 20%.  You must have a Pentair or Franklin pump as they are the ones with floating stage type pumps that don't drop much in amperage.  A floating stack design like a Goulds would drop 30% or more, and a Grundfos would drop by 50% or more.  If you use low flow for long periods of time it would pay to pick a pump with a better drop in amps.  However, a 20% drop with a floating stage design pump is pretty good.  Running cooler from the drop in amps and with cycling eliminated, that pump may last a lifetime.  But if it ever needs replacing, consider a Grundfos or similar design that would have a better amp drop.

Having said that, about half way through your video I saw the Littlefuse pump protector.  Most of those type devices look for a 25% drop in amps and shut the pump off thinking the well is dry.  In the video the Littlefuse device did shut the pump down on dry well condition.  That means the amps dropped by 25% not just 20%.  That is not going to be acceptable with the Cycle Stop Valve.  Anytime the CSV reduces the amp draw by 25% the Littlefuse device will shut the pump down thinking the well is dry.  If you had a pump with a good amp drop you would most certainly need to remove the Littlefuse protector.  Even with the much less amp drop of the floating stage design pump you have, I think the 25% drop in amps is going to be a problem for you. 

Since most dry well protectors on the market look for a 25% drop in amps and amps usually drop more than 25% when using a Cycle Stop Valve, we made a device called the Cycle Sensor that can be set for as low of an amp draw as needed.  You can see it here. https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/cycle-sensor-pump-monitor

The flow to your wide open hose test was restricte4d by the 4 way splitter.  The frost free hydrant will let out a lot of water and the pressure will get even lower.  But the ball valves in the splitter will only let so much water through.

You also have the CSV set for about 78-79 PSI, which is why the pump shuts off so soon after closing the taps.  A 60 gallon tank is a pretty large size to use with the CSV.  But your test does show that you can set the CSV to get any run time you want even with a large tank.  However, I would turn the CSV down a little or the pressure switch up a bit to get at least a minute of fill time after all taps are closed.  It is just hard to see where the CSV is set with such a large tank.  As you can see the pressure slowly creeps up as the large tank is filling.  You just have to take time and wait for it to settle to know where the CSV is set.  You can actually tell when the CSV starts working as that is when the amps drop below 8.  The amps should run below 8 for a minute while the tank is filled.  But again, I am afraid that will cause the Little fuse device to shut the pump down thinking the well is dry.  I am sure it waits for a certain length of time after the amps drop by 25%.  So, when it takes a minute to fill the tank the Littlefuse device will be a problem.
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Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Can I install this after a hose outlet?
« Last post by Tylerr on August 09, 2023, 05:20:37 PM »
Did a before and after video:   https://youtu.be/IX5NNtVEyf0

I am very happy with the results.  We finally have hot water at all showers, and good water pressure everywhere. 
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When the pump is not running there is no water going through the CSV, unless the check valves are bad and water is going backwards.  Water from the tank doesn't even go through the CSV on the way to the house.  Actually, having two check valves can cause them to leak back more than just having one.  Pressure is what keeps check valves closed.  The upper check keeps all the pressure off the lower check, and it can leak back.  This causes a strong vacuum on the upper check and it can also leak back.  Closing the ball valve to the house should isolate the problem.  Either pressure will leak off because the checks are leaking or it won't.

There is an o-ring in the CSV1A that can cause a whistle when the pump is running, But it won't make any noise when the pump is off.  That sounds more like a bell ringing and I don't know where it is coming from.
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There's actually two check valves, so I don't think water is flowing backward. Would that cause it to make a sound?

It does seem like perhaps something is using water in the house at those times and we were not aware of it. It seems like possibly what is happening is the whine occurs when water is flowing from the pressure tank to the house, and then when the pressure drops low enough for the switch to kick on the pump, the sound stops. But that doesn't explain why the CSV is making that whine sound.
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If the pump is not running when you hear that sound, water must be going backwards through the CSV.  It could be a bad check valve.  However, the CSV1A is only good to 25 GPM and you now have a 35 GPM pump.  It will still work with that pump but you won't see much more than 25 GPM even though the pump will do more.  You will need either a CSV125 or a CSV3A2T to utilize the larger flow from the pump. 

If it is a check valve leaking back turning off the breaker shouldn't have any effect?
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Fast forward ~3 years, and we've had this system up and running for quite a while. We ended up removing the Dole valve due to the noise it made and just relying on a Cycle Stop Sensor as you suggested.

However, after a primary bedroom bathroom remodel, the 1 HP pump in the cistern was insufficient for producing enough pressure at higher flows needed to run body sprayers, rain head, etc all at the same time. We upgraded the cistern pump (and pump box) to 2 HP -- a Goulds 35GS20412CL. Ever since then, we've had a very odd problem:

The CSV1A now intermittently starts making a very loud whining sound. When this occurs, its usually not when someone is using water in the house. The cycle stop sensors for both the deep well and the cistern pump both read 0A. It occurs for about 1-3 minutes. Then the well switch makes a fluttering sound and finally the cistern pump kicks on. Occasionally, the whine stops without the cistern pump kicking on, and in that case, the well tank empties and then there is no water in the house.

Despite there being 0A reading on the sensors, cutting power to the system via the circuit breaker for the pump does also stop the sound.

Here's a video with the whine sound:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/esa3bgd89isl0u3a1ph1y/2023-07-22-13.47.07.mp4?rlkey=j7hrm9xp1ng6wzb1i618kpx8q&dl=0

Do you know what is wrong, or, what additional information can I provide to help diagnose?
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Valve Tech / Re: Help with Valve installation
« Last post by Sebanavila on July 28, 2023, 12:44:51 PM »
I just complete the setup, it is steady at 55 psi, but I hit a couple of snags, first I tested the air pressure at the tank and it was at 20 psi, I add air and now is at 35 psi, jut to be on the safe side, then I have to remove the valve to check on the dripping, well I found that the use of dope is the cause of leaking and dripping in hot weather, I disassemble every connection and use Teflon and now it is completely sealed. I recommend that your company make it official the use of Teflon only and not the dope or paste, the end user will appreciate it.

Well, that is it for this adventure, I thank you so much Carry for your support and help, and also to Sam, for his emails before I purchase the valve.

Thank you guys, extremely happy.
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Valve Tech / Re: Help with Valve installation
« Last post by Cary Austin on July 27, 2023, 07:16:33 PM »
Looks good!  But you really only needed one union.  When you break it apart at the union you can pull the pump on one side and unscrew anything that needs maintenance on the other.  Unions are a pain and I don't like to use anymore than I have to.

If you ask for it to be preset at 58 PSI it should have had "set 58 PSI" written on the side of the box.  If so, and you haven't adjusted it, try turning on a shower.  Running a single shower or anything that is about 3 GPM is what is needed to set the CSV.  With such a large tank you have to be patient to see if it is holding 58 or slowly creeping up.  It should not creep up above 58 while the shower is running or the adjustment bolt has been tightened too far down.  With the shower running, wait for the tank to empty and the pump to come on, then adjust the CSV to hold 58 PSI constant.  It needs to stay at 58 for as long as the shower is on, even if the shower is on for a month.
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