Hello from Delaware

[waterpirate]

Greetings Carry,
long time no talk.  I recently got requests for installing in well pressure tanks and the manufacturer reccomends using a cycle stop in the installation.  Can you give me a tutorial?  first install will be a 1/2 hp 10gpm with a static of 15' and a pumping level of 25.
Thanx in advance
Eric Sackett

[Cary Austin]

Hi Eric
Well since I have the patent on the in well pressure tank, I should be able to help you.  Lol.  Flexcon just waited for my patent to expire and stole the idea, the same way they did WellXtrol years ago.  I had licensed it out to another guy for several years, because I didn't want to make one of my own.  Actually I did want to make one, I just could never be happy with the performance. 

The tank on the market now only holds about 1/4 of a gallon of water.  This is because it is not feasible to ship a tank long enough to hold a gallon or so of water.  So they designed the tank to be easy to ship, not to work properly.  Even when I was using those I always recommended adding an additional 4.5 gallon size tank somewhere else in the system.  It is a leak of less than 1 GPM that becomes the problem.  With the CSV and a tank that holds 1 gallon of water like the 4.5 size tank, less than 1 GPM leak is not a problem as the pump will cycle slowly.  But with only 1/4 gallon of draw the pump can cycle itself to death fairly quickly.

So if I had power at the well, and didn't want to run power from the house, I would use the in well tank with the CSV125-1, but I would add an additional tank in the house somewhere.  Especially when supplying things like cow troughs with float valves, you need at least 1 gallon of draw down.

Installing a CSV below the in well tank means it will be 10'-15' below ground.  If set 15' below the surface, the CSV will regulate 7 PSI lower than if at the surface.  So a 60 PSI CSV125 will only give you 53 PSI at the surface, and would work with a 43/63 pressure switch.  If you start with a 50 PSI CSV the pressure would only be 43 PSI at the house.  It doesn't hurt if the CSV125 is submerged, it will still work fine.  Teflon tape only, as the plastic in the CSV125 doesn't like pipe dope.  Call me if you have any questons.

On another note, I noticed some new replies on that other forum.  The Engineering Forum finally figured out I was right after 10 years of being banned, and let me help on that site now.  Do you think the Geo community has learned anything in all these years, and would appreciate some knowledgeable advice?

This is part of what the latest post said.  I know others could benefit from this knowledge as well.

So for someone who like me who is a do-it-yourselfer and wants to keep things simple and inexpensive the cycle stop valve is a great product. My brother built his house about a year after I installed my system and he too has a Cycle Stop installed in his well system that has worked for 9 years flawlessly as they advertise.

[waterpirate]

Cary,
Thank you for your response.  We have a customer hell bent on a in well tank, I am not convinced due to the reasons you cited above.  We will try and talk him out of it.  If he wants a cycle stop inside with appropriate sized tank, giddy up. 

As for the forum, I am the only O.G. left that was involved years ago.  As I stated when we sanitized the posts I am all for free enterprise and people making their own choices.  The current moderator has no knowledge of what transpired in the past.  Drop him a line and request membership. 

I will not protest.  That is not who I am anymore.
Eric

[Cary Austin]

Thanks Man!
The other problem with the in well tank is the vertical bladder.  I had a clear tank where I could watch the bladder.  When filling or draining it looked like a snake swallowing a Gerbil.  It fills from the bottom to the top and drains from the top down.  This rippling effect makes it impossible to make a bladder last.  i set up cycle counters on them and they would pop a hole after way to few cycles, as the bladder just can survive the rippling effect.  You should see my scrape pile out back.  I'll bet there are 40 different versions of in well tanks in a pile.  I could just never get happy with the small amount of water they held and wearing out the bladder from the rippling.  I really tried.  But I couldn't get a product I was comfortable would last, so I never sold them.

We actually came up with the PK1A and the PK125 to replace in well pressure tank systems.  The CSV125 can still be installed in the well, where hydrants or tees can be in the line from the well to the house.  This way the 4.5 gallon tank and pressure switch can be installed a long ways from the well in the house or other warm structure, and the in well tank is not needed.


I have been doing this so long I guess I have outlasted many of my detractors.  LOL!  However, it just took about 10-15 years for others to figure out I was right that VFD's do not save energy, and that CSV's do not damage a pump.  Most forums, like the engineering forum called me a liar and many other things for years.  But they finally figured out how to read a pump curve and no longer argue with me.  I rarely even have to chime in over there, as there are many engineers who will pile on the minute someone ask a dumb question like, how much energy does a VFD save?  They banned me and gave me a hard time for years, but now they quickly state that VFD's do not save energy. 

After 26 years and hundreds of thousands of CSV's making pumps last longer, few people try to say a CSV will harm a pump anymore either.  However, there are a couple of people out there who will troll me forever with their incorrect statements.  One of them that starts with an R is the main problem on the Geo forum.  I got him banned from most other forums for his incorrect advice, but those threads on the Geo forum still cause me to lose some business.  When people search for something negative about the CSV, those old threads still pop up.  I would really like to "sanitize" those old threads. 

Maybe I will contact the moderator.  The old one wasn't any help.  Any other forum where I help they appreciate the increase in traffic from my advice.  I think maybe the lack of such advice and discussions about other products on the "free market" is why the Geo forum doesn't get much traffic. 

[waterpirate]

At this point Geo is a mature science.  The internet is full of places to get info.  That was not true 10 years ago, thus the low traffic and lack of new or exciting topics, they have all been discussed to death. lol
Eric