New CSV to replace my other

[Hoss]

I am new to this forum.  I bought a Constant Pressure Valve from a competitor of yours, not knowing the implications, just chasing price and hearsay from others on another forum.  Their CPV does work as long as I'm running anything in excess of 3 gpm, anything less than that and the CPV lets the pressure creep back up and shut off.  I did contact them and they suggested several things, even turning up my pressure switch cut out pressure.  I don't like having to do anything to my pressure system (which is 40/60) to make their valve work.  Bottom line, I have a low yield well (1 GPM) and a 2500 gallon holding tank with a booster pump.  I have no lawn to irrigate, I water my plants and fruit trees by hand, and all of my sinks and showers are way below 3 gpm.  I understand that your CSV1W is about the equivalent of the CPV I purchased from your competitor, except that your CSV will stay around 1 gpm and keep my pressure constant without cycling my pump, is that correct?  I don't like the fact that theirs has a hole drilled in it as opposed to your 'half moon' type of opening which eleviates clogging.  If these things are true about your valve I will order one today.   Please Advise.

[Cary Austin]

Welcome Hoss
All our competitors say theirs is just like a Cycle Stop Valve only cheaper.  As you have seen, this is not true.  The patented half moon design in the CSV is what allows us to make the small 1 GPM bypass.  A drilled hole the same size would quickly clog up, so our "competitors" drill a 3 GPM hole to try and prevent clogging.  So anytime you use less than 3 GPM, such as with a 2.5 GPM showerhead, the pump still cycles on and off, which is not good.

Yes the CSV1W will work down to 1 GPM.  We guarantee everything we sell.  I'll bet you can't get your money back on the faulty valve from our competitor.  Good thing it was "cheaper".

Another one of our many competitors uses a different tactic.  They are outright infringing on our patented half moon bypass design with just one of their insignificant valve models.  That way they can advertise their "Constant Pressure Valves" as having "no drilled holes, and no screens, just like a CSV", even though all their other models do have drilled holes and screens.  We hear from people occasionally that say, "this valve is suppose to be just like a CSV with no drilled holes and no screens".   We have to tell them that’s only on our competitors model A, and all of their other models B though Z have drilled holes and screens.

I hate that our "competitors" are using these tricks, which give the original Cycle Stop Valve a bad reputation without due cause.  It does prove that the design of the CSV works so well that others will go to great lengths to copy or steal our idea.

When you get that valve replaced with an original CSV, please come back and let everyone know the difference you experience.  You might save others from wasting their money on those expensive paperweights.
Thanks
Cary

[Hoss]

I always say that 'education costs'.  Fortunately in this case it only cost about $135.  And my Dad and everyone else's Dad used to say, "you get what you pay for".  After 52 years of life on this earth you would think I would learn.  I should have been convinced when I saw your website for the first time.  You folks have done an awesome job.  I am looking forward to swapping out the CPV with your CSV.  As you requested, once I get it in and watch it perform, I will return to let others know the difference, and I even intend to state it on the 'other forum' which sold it to me.  I probably won't be to popular on that forum after that.  They have a great forum with lots of contributors with lots of experience but the readers need to know that 3 gallons per minute is alot of water flow and most household fixtures, dishwashers, clothes washers, etc. don't use that amount.  I believe you described it best, my new paper weight.   I shall return later.
Thanks again for your advise and information.

[Cary Austin]

I would appreciate you coming back and giving people the benefit of your experience.  I thought I would explain the way a bypass works in a CSV.  As you have seen, several other companies copy everything I do, so I have not printed this information before.

The bypass in the smaller CSV’s is 1 GPM average.  In other words you will get between ½ and 1.5 GPM, depending on the differential pressure from your pump.  If you have a pump that builds high pressure, it will squirt 1.5 GPM through the bypass.  A low-pressure pump will only squirt ½ of a GPM through the bypass.  This actually sizes the bypass to match the cooling requirements of the particular pump.  Higher-pressure pumps need 1.5 GPM to stay cool, while lower pressure pumps only need .5 GPM to stay cool.

That makes the so called 3 GPM bypass in our competitors valve actually work between 1.5 GPM and 5 GPM, even though they don't know this is happening.

Larger Cycle Stop Valves have a bypass with 5 GPM average.  This actually works between 2.2 and 8 GPM, depending on the backpressure of the particular pump being used.  Again this bypass matches the cooling requirement for each particular pump.

Our competitors cannot use this small of a bypass, because a drilled hole this small will easily clog with debris or from a buildup of hard water deposits, the same as happens to the holes in a shower head.  The Cycle Stop Valve has a patented non-closing seat instead of a drilled hole.  The non-closing seat of the CSV will not clog, and can be made much smaller to accommodate lower flow rates and utilize smaller pressure tanks.

Very few people understand how to size the non-closing bypass or measure the flow rate.  Even though it is a fairly simple operation, I will leave this part un-written so as not to make it even easier for my competitors to further copy our design.

Needless to say the smaller the bypass, the lower the useful flow rate without cycling the pump.  The smaller the bypass the lower the pressure tank-fill rate and therefore the smaller the pressure tank that can be used.  Please let us know the smallest flow rate you can use without cycling the pump, and how that compares to our competitors.

[Hoss]

Cary
I installed the CSVW1 today on my system.  The valve works just like it said it would.  I tested it out while watering my garden and trees which are right next to my well.  I am ecstatic about how the valve performs, however, here is my dilemma.  I put the valve in, but my pressure tank is an Amtrol 85 gallon with a drawdown of 25.4 gallons set at 40/60 which is my pressure setting.  I didn't actually time it, but it took a long, long time to fill my pressure tank! Probably 20+ minutes when starting at 40 lbs.  OK, I understand that the CSV and larger pressure tanks don't work well together and that's actually a good thing, but it just so happens that the Amtrol pressure tank was what I inherited when I bought the property.  I have another brand new pressure tank in my shed, still in the box that a friend gave me when he lost his house to foreclosure.  It is a Flotec 35 gallon with a 9.4 gallon draw down at a 40/60 setting. The Flotec is more than 1/2 the size of what I presently have.  The Amtrol is a good tank which I know, the Flotec is still in the box, brand new, however, based upon the paperwork sent with the CSV, even the Flotec is a little large based upon the 2 minute shut off time after the pump kicks on.  I realize that if I keep the Amtrol tank, which is about 6 years old, I would have to put up with long fill times which is better than cycling the pump but really the pump is running way too long to fill the tank.  The Flotec is more than half that, but according to your installation instructions, I would probably still have to adjust my pressure switch to 34/54 to make the timing work with the draw down of 9.4 gallons.  I really don't want to mess with the pressure switch, I dont' know why, but I like the 40/60 setting and would like to keep it there.  I am not against purchasing another (smaller) pressure tank than the Flotec to make this work properly, my only problem is that then I would have 3 pressure tanks that all work good but only one that works the way I need it.  I think I know what I am going to do, but I would like you to wade in on it and give me your opinion.  I have definitely found the right valve, I just need to match things up so that it all works the way it should. Your CSV is a superior product to your competitions, no doubt about it.  Please let me know your feelings as soon as you have time. 
Thanks again
Hoss

[Cary Austin]

Sorry if our instructions are confusing, but the CSV will work with any size pressure tank.  It doesn't really matter where the pressure switch is set, because the setting of the CSV will determine the pressure you see while using water.  With a large pressure tank, you just set the CSV closer to the off setting of the pressure switch.  In other words, with a 40/60 pressure switch, set the CSV at 58 PSI.  Then the CSV only fills the last 2 PSI of the tank at 1 GPM, and it will only take 2 or 3 minutes to top off the tank.

With the CSV1W, that means tightening on the adjustment screw about 2 full turns clockwise.  Just make sure when you run 1 or 2 GPM, that the pressure stays just under 60 so the pump doesn't shut off.

[gpick]

With a large pressure tank, you just set the CSV closer to the off setting of the pressure switch.  In other words, with a 40/60 pressure switch, set the CSV at 58 PSI.  Then the CSV only fills the last 2 PSI of the tank at 1 GPM, and it will only take 2 or 3 minutes to top off the tank.

If I understand your animated example, the main disadvantage using a large tank vs. the 4.4 gallon model is that with the large tank there would be an extended time of lower pressure than the CSV level compared to the small tank which would allow the pump to start almost immediately as the pressure dropped to 40 psi.  The animation shows a rapid drawdown to 40 then immediately returning to 50 psi as the pump starts.

[Cary Austin]

A large pressure tank is a disadvantage to how quick the pump starts and how fast you have constant pressure at the tap.  But a large tank can be an advantage for the pump not having to start as often for short term uses of water.  It is a trade off that works well either way.  You could loosen the small adjustment screw in the pressure switch which should reduce the on/off bandwidth to 15 PSI instead of 20. 

Or you could use one of our digital pressure switches so you could reduce the bandwidth to 10 PSI like on at 50 and off at 60.  You are still utilizing half of the big tank this way.  You never see the pressure go below 50, long term uses stay constant at 58, and when no water is being used it shuts off at 60 PSI.  Makes it hard to see a difference in pressure no matter how you are using the water.

[Hoss]

Excellent.  Now I understand more clearly how it works.  To be honest with you, even without a CSV and running the pressures at 40/60 we really can't tell a distinct difference when the tank hits 40 or gets up to 60, so our pressure was never really an issue, what was the issue was the pump cycling while showering, watering my trees or doing anything else. 

I am going to try to stick with the big tank for now, (since it's working) and adjust the CSV to 58 lbs.  I am intrigued by the digital pressure switch however and in the future may decide to try it.

I will let you know how things work. 

PS: After I posted my last blog, I noticed that I wrote everything in one paragraph which makes it hard to read and follow, my apologies, I actually know better than that. 

Thanks
Hoss 

[Hoss]

OK, I got home last night and began the set up.  I found that the CSVW1 is easy to adjust.  After fooling around with it, I have it set pretty close to 58 Lbs and the pump is turning off right around 2 minutes.  Again, it's hard to tell in the shower if 40 lbs of pressure is coming out of the shower head or 58 lbs, so pressure is not the issue with me, but I love the fact that I can water my trees by hand and the pump keeps running at 58 lbs and it doesn't creep up and shut the pump off like the competitors model.  I am very satisfied with the Cycle Stop Valve. 

I noticed that there are CSV parts for sale on your website.  Parts do wear out like everything else, but I was just wondering what part wears out the most or the fastest and how long do most CSV's work without requiring any replacement parts?   I assume the answer varies widely.
Hoss

[Cary Austin]

I am glad you got it adjusted the way you want it.  I'll bet in a short time you will be able to tell the differencs in shower pressure when the CSV is holding 58 constant compared to when the tank is draining down to 40 PSI.

Yes we have parts for everything.  Valves that handle a lot of sand, iron bacteria, or have been frozen will ocassionally need a part.  Most of the valves we sold 15 to 18 years ago have had no repairs and are still working fine.  Your not likely to wear one out.

Thanks for sharing this with everyone, let us know if we can help with anything.

[rkwood]

Cary Austin -

I just had a CSV installed last week.  My installer set it to 55 PSI - when I run a shower and a faucet, the pressure holds fine but when I add another shower or flush a toilet the pressure drops down to 48 - 50 PSI and holds steady.  I run a 1 hp pump in my home with a smaller pressure tank (12 gallon draw down).  I'm concerned how it will work when I need to run my underground sprinklers next spring.

Any insights?  (I also sent an e-mail from the CSV web-site.)

Thanks,

Richard

[Cary Austin]

The brass valve have what is called "reduced pressure falloff".  Which means the more water you use the lower the constant pressure will be.  When set at 55 PSI while running about 2 GPM, you will have about 45 PSI when using 20 GPM.  If you need 55 PSI while running the sprinklers at 20 GPM, all you need to do is adjust the CSV to 65 PSI while you are running 2 GPM.

[danboy]

on my second csv1 in 12 years - excellent.
Now require another.
Have been told the CSVW handles iron-rich water better. Is this so?
Also seems that the CSVW may have a larger diameter. Is that so? Space is tight

Thanks for any comments
Danboy

[Cary Austin]

Yes the CSV1W will handle iron better than the CSV1 plastic valves.  However, the CSV1Z is the best valve we have for debris and iron because it has more tolerance.