Author Topic: Low production well with 3 supply zones  (Read 3403 times)

stvnwhite

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Low production well with 3 supply zones
« on: March 07, 2016, 01:49:24 PM »
OK - just getting started trying to plan for water distribution on a property and looking for advice.

The property in question is sloped with the well house basically near the center.   We will be building a liveable garage on the uphill side (15-20 vertical rise) and a cabin on the downhill side (10-15 vertical fall) from well.

The well is low production (3-3.5 gpm) and I was thinking of putting a cistern uphill from the garage for storage/supply.   I was thinking of feeding the cistern with a line constrained with a Dole valve and controlled with 24v level switch.   I would then have a supply line (low pressure - gravity feed) coming out of the cistern that would be Tee'd to a booster pump/CSV setup in the liveable garage.   Then continue the supply line down to the cabin and have a similar setup for the cabin.   

Couple questions - does that sound reasonable?   Can you supply booster pumps directly from a line or do you need some kind of storage volume?

Next complication  - I have some irrigation line in the ground near the well that I want to feed for irrigation and/or fire control spigots along the edge of the property.   Again, this buried supply line is near the well not either of the structures and their associated boost pumps.   Any ideas on valving, etc around the well do accommodate this irrigation/fire control line?   Cistern in the wrong location ?  Another boost pump or is there something else that can be done to simplify everything for all three zones (garage, cabin, irrigation) ?

Thanks -

Cary Austin

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016, 03:23:14 PM »
Well there are several ways to skin a cat like that.  You don't really want a very long suction line from the storage to the pump.  So you could put a booster pump and CSV at the cistern storage tank and pump uphill to the garden and downhill to the house with the same pump system.

Cary Austin

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2016, 12:20:40 PM »

Just to be more specific, the attached image shows the relative placement of the lot structures and well location.   Unfortunately, I don't think I have space for a cistern near the well and that is why I have notionally placed uphill of the garage.   So - assuming I use the existing well submersible pump restricted with a Dole valve to fill the cistern.   
 
I believe you were recommending placing a single booster pump (jet or submersible) / CSV assembly near the cistern and thereby providing a pressurized line to the garage which would continue back downhill to the cabin?   Where would you place a pressure control switch for the booster pump as the cabin is probably 40-45 ft lower than the cistern / booster pump location?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 12:23:05 PM by Cary Austin »

Cary Austin

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 04:03:48 PM »
The pressure switch, CSV, pressure tank, and other fittings need to be install right after the booster pump, as is normal with the Pside-Kick kit.  40'-45' downhill means the cabin will get 20 PSI more than at the pump.  So you just set the pressure switch in the Pside-Kick kit to 20/40 and the CSV to 30 PSI and you will see 40/60 (and 50 PSI constant when using water) from the CSV at the cabin.

stvnwhite

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 07:04:39 PM »
OK - thanks.   That makes sense.

If I wanted higher pressure in the garage and make pressures similar in both buildings, could I set a Pside-Kick kit to 40/60 and the CSV to 50 PSI at the cistern and then have a pressure reducing valve at the downhill cabin?   Can a reducing valve even adjust for that small a delta-pressure (~20 psi)?

Thanks again

Cary Austin

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2016, 07:36:35 AM »
Sure.  That is a good way to do it.  We even make a pressure reducer to use for things like that.  It is model number PRV1A and is adjustable from 15 to 150 PSI.  There is no Delta on a PRV.  Just set it to 50 PSI and you will have 50 PSI as long as the incoming pressure is higher than that.

stvnwhite

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2021, 05:40:05 PM »
Cary -

It's been a few years (like 5) since my initial questions but I was wondering if you might be able to help on some related questions to the situation as described previously.  Probably not in the realm of Cycle Stop Valves but you obviously have many years of experience in water supply systems.

Question - looking for ideas on how to control my well pump when filling the cistern up at the top of the property. 

I have a 12v/240v pump start relay that I am currently not using.  My original thought was to use a cistern float switch and running a 12v signal from the cistern all the way down the hill to the well pump to control on/off.   However, do wireless techniques exist these days to do similar pump control or is that not reliable enough.   

The other option I guess is to just use a mechanical float valve in the cistern that would shut off flow and the pump would eventually shut off after reaching shut-off pressure via a pressure switch at the well.

The other item I need to control is run time during cistern filling operations so that I don't dry run the well pump.   Any ideas on this?

Thanks


Cary Austin

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2021, 08:01:50 AM »
You can either use a float valve or a solenoid valve.  Either can be used after a ball valve or pressure sustain valve so it doesn't pump the well dry while filling the cistern,  Just limit the flow with a ball valve to 2-3 GPM filling the cistern, then it should not effect the house water pressure.  A 12V solenoid valve can run off a battery and a little solar charger if you don't have power at that location.  If you do have power there use 24V solenoid valve with a little 24V plug in transformer to run it.


stvnwhite

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2021, 09:57:14 AM »
Thanks - couple follow on questions.

Is a Dole valve similar in function to a pressure sustain valve?    Will a Dole valve work as well? 

Any recommended vendors for 24V solenoid valve?

Thanks again!

Cary Austin

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Re: Low production well with 3 supply zones
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2021, 10:19:55 AM »
A dole vale is just a set orifice size.  it will work but not vary the flow.  Best to use a ball valve as a Dole valve so you can adjust the flow as needed.  Once you determine the flow rate needed to fill the storage tank that doesn't tax the other usages, you can replace the ball valve if you want for the correct size Dole valve.  But not really necessary.

Any "sprinkler valve" will be 24V.  Irritrol, Rainbird, Toro, Hunter, just to name a few.  SJE Rhombus and others make a good "pump up" float switch. And you can find several different 24V plug in transformers on the Internet, some with a few feet of wire and some with no wire.