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Topics - Cary Austin

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Applications / Air Release Valve for Deep Set Turbine without foot valve

« on: August 11, 2021, 11:48:03 AM »

Here are some pictures of a CSV system installed 15+ years ago for a deep set turbine pump. There is no foot valve on the pump, as is usual with many line shaft turbines. When working on a pressurized system using a pressure switch, getting rid of the air in the column pipe is a necessity. On this system the static water level is more than 100' deep and 100' of air in column pipe must be dispelled when the pump starts. Using a 4" normally open valve on a tee prior to the Cycle Stop Valve lets the air escape as fast as needed. This valve is designed to start closing as soon as water enters the pilot control valve. A needle valve adjust the closing speed of the valve as needed. This facilitates a smooth change from air to water in the system. As the air release valve closes it increases back pressure until the silent check valve installed prior to the Cycle Stop Valve slowly starts to push open. Once the air release valve is closed the Cycle Stop Valve is in control until the pump is shut off to due to no demand.

Reviews / Hooks, TX uses CSV when water tower out for service

« on: August 03, 2020, 12:56:41 PM »

This link will take you to the Water Efficiency magazine article on how the CSV was used at Hooks, TX when the water tower was off line for service.

"I had run across this device called a Cycle Stop Valve which actually works so well you don’t even need a water tower.”

https://www.waterworld.com/drinking-water/distribution/article/14070406/all-about-the-cycle-stop-valve-csv
https://www.waterworld.com/drinking-water/distribution/article/14070071/more-benefits-of-the-cycle-stop-valve-csv
https://www.waterworld.com/home/article/14069951/simplicity-under-pressurethe-valve-that-delivers

Reviews / SW Gardens uses CSV and 44 gal tank for 138 homes

« on: August 03, 2020, 12:49:09 PM »

A state inspection was made on the old system. The water operator was informed that due to low pressure during peak demands, he needed to install larger booster pumps than the two 3 HP pumps he had.

The cycling was bad with the old 3 HP pumps and 3,000 gallons of pressure tank, cycling would be worse with larger pumps. To stay within acceptable run times with the new 7.5 HP pumps a 10,000 gallon tank was needed. Prices ranged from $20,000 to $35,000. Add the price of the pumps, everyday expenses, and it might as well have been a million dollars. There is no way to sell enough water to 138 mobile homes to justify that kind of expenditure.

The water operator was not the kind to give up easily. He began to look for alternatives. He soon learned that Cycle Stop Valves and variable speed pumps both claimed to be able to do the job with out the big pressure tank. Comparing the two options, the water operator determined that the variable speed pumps have complicated electronics and were still out of his budget. The Cycle Stop Valve was simple, inexpensive, and claimed to work with only a 44 gallon tank.

Confronting the state officials, the water operator was informed that the 10,000 gallon tank, engineered with a compressor and all the accessories was the only approved method. He tried for a grant. He was stunned to find out that there were hundreds of water systems that were in worse shape than this one. All of them were trying for a grant to purchase an approved pressure tank or water tower. The water operator could afford to put in the larger pumps and even the Cycle Stop Valves. But, if the 10,000 gallon tank was mandatory, the state would have to buy it when they took over after the bankruptcy.

Well, seven years have passed since the installation of the larger pumps with Cycle Stop Valves and a 44 gallon tank. What does the water operator have to say? "I can't believe the way these Cycle Stop Valves work. I just had to change my way of thinking. I was used to hearing the old pumps cycle on and off all the time. It seemed strange to come into the pump house and here a pump running all the time. Since installation the primary pump has been running 24 hours a day. The Cycle Stop Valve has held the pressure at exactly 55 PSI all this time. The flow rate in the park can vary from as little as 5 GPM to as much as 400 GPM and the pump, or pumps if needed, just keep on running supplying exactly the same amount of water as the customers are using. With the old system the pressure was always changing, 40 to 60, 60 to 40, 40 to 60, continuously. One major complaint was that the sprinklers would just barely work for a while, then they would shoot all the way into the neighbors yard at other times. The steady 55 PSI supplied by the Cycle Stop Valve has fixed that problem. I was also worried that a 7.5 HP pump running all the time would cause my electric bill to go up. Last year I mostly had one 3 HP pump running, sometimes on, sometimes off. Now I have over twice as large a pump (7.5HP) running 24 hours a day but, my electric bill hasn't increased at all. I have had absolutely no complaints from my tenants or the state about low pressure this year. The constant pressure has also eliminated the leaks. I didn't realize that a pump kicking off and on all the time was causing all those leaks. The Cycle Stop Valves have saved me lots of digging and repair expenses. Bottom line is that I can't believe anyone would use any other type system. I realize now that big pressure tanks and water towers are a waste of money. I'm glad I didn't listen to those who told me it couldn't be done. With Cycle Stop Valves, one 44 gallon tank can supply 138 mobile homes."

Reviews / City of Harker Heights uses CSV to replace water tower

« on: August 03, 2020, 12:33:34 PM »

Three CSVs on Three 200 HP Pumps, with 80 Gallon Pressure Tank. Water Tower was removed for service. System has better pressure, less cycling, and No Water Hammer with CSV than with Water Tower.

The old way of system control was to fill a water tower or pressure tank and shut off the pump. The system demand would then empty the tank and the pump would be restarted. This process is repeated over and over because system demand is usually much less flow than the pump produces. The tank is repeatedly filled at maximum pump flow and drained at the rate of demand. This cycling on and off of the pump system causes a multitude of problems. Everything from the generators at the power station to the plumbing in individual houses or irrigation systems is stressed from the cycling of the pump. End rush currents from pumps starting stresses electrical components in the power grid from the generator to the pump motor itself. Water hammer and surge from pumps starting and stopping stresses tanks, valves, and all piping in the distribution system. Long water lines between the pump and the pressure tank, water tower, or storage tank are especially vulnerable. Changing the flow in these long lines from a dead stop to full pump flow then back to a dead stop, can cause tremendous surges, or swings in pressure, that are responsible for numerous and expensive line breaks.

Cycle Stop Valves vary the pump output to exactly match the demand. A jockey and or a base load pump runs continuously and is throttled with a Cycle Stop Valve to exactly match the demand. When demand is greater than these small pumps can produce, larger pumps are brought on line as needed, and their output is throttled with a Cycle Stop Valve to continue matching the flow demanded. When flow demanded is reduced, larger pumps are turned off when no longer needed. The base load and or jockey pump will continue to run matching smaller flow rates as long as at least 5 GPM is being demanded. Continuous and instantaneous matching of the demand instead of completely starting and stopping the flow eliminates pressure surges in pipelines and reduces end rush required to frequently start pump motors. Continuous matching of the demand also reduces or eliminates the need for large pressure tanks and water towers, further benefiting the system.

Reviews / City of Rochel GA uses CSV to make water tower seem taller

« on: August 03, 2020, 11:40:25 AM »

A booster pump using a Cycle Stop Valve can take the 25 PSI coming from your too short water tower and boost pressure to the 50 PSI or more if needed. Follow the scenario below.

Example with supply coming from a well field:
Two 1,000 GPM supply wells and a water tower, all in different locations, on a common or looped system feed 1,000 connections. Pressure in the system is limited by the height of the tower. Some parts of the city only receive 25 PSI. The two well pumps could be turned up to supply as much pressure as needed but the tower would overflow.

At the bottom of the water tower we attach a pump system and a manifold. This manifold includes a solenoid valve with pressure sustain to let water into the tower. This solenoid valve is controlled by the level probes in the tower or SCADA. A check valve is on a separate line that will always allow water out of the tower if, the pressure in the tower ever becomes more than the pressure in the system. The third line in the manifold contains a booster pump with a Cycle Stop Valve. This pump will boost water from the tower to a higher pressure and then into the distribution, increasing the system pressure without increasing the height of the tower. The flow from this pump is controlled by a Cycle Stop Valve, and a pressure switch attached to a 44 gallon bladder tank turns the pump on or off. The two 1,000 GPM well pumps are also both fitted with their own Cycle Stop Valves, small bladder tanks, and pressure switches.

The booster pump should supply about twice the average demand or in this case about 100 GPM. The Cycle Stop Valve on this booster pump will supply 60 PSI constantly to the distribution system, even as flow needed changes from about 3 GPM to 100 GPM. If flow needed increases above 100 GPM, the booster pump will no longer be able to keep the pressure at 60 PSI. When the system pressure drops to 55 PSI a pressure switch on one of the supply wells starts the well pump. The Cycle Stop Valve on this well pump will maintain 55 PSI on the system, adding only what extra flow is needed over what the booster pump is already supplying. If the booster pump is already supplying 100 GPM , and 120 GPM is being used in the city, then the Cycle Stop Valve will make the well pump supply only the extra 20 GPM. With both the booster pump and first well pump running a total of 1100 GPM could be used at 55 PSI. If more than 1100 GPM is needed the pressure will drop to 50 PSI and the second well pump is started. The Cycle stop Valve on the second well pump will maintain 50 PSI on the system while demand increases from 1105 GPM to 2100 GPM. When demand again decreases below 1100 GPM the Cycle Stop Valve on the first well pump will bring the system pressure up to 55 PSI, triggering a pressure switch, which is located at the second well pump, to shut the second well pump off. When the demand in the system drops below 100 GPM, the Cycle Stop Valve on the booster pump will bring the system pressure up to 60 PSI, and the other well pump will be shut off. With this many connections the booster pump should always be running, supplying from 3 GPM to 100 GPM to the system at a constant 60 PSI. Only if the system requires zero flow will the booster pump fill the 44 gallon tank to 70 PSI and be shut off.

Anytime during the operation of any or all pumps the water tower could become low. At this point the probes in the tank will signal the solenoid valve at the base of the tower to open, and also shut down the booster pump. With the tower filling and the booster pump off, the pressure will drop to 55 PSI and the first well pump will be started. If the pressure sustain feature on the solenoid valve is set to hold 54 PSI the first well pump will run at max flow until the tower is refilled. If the pressure sustain feature is set at 49 PSI, both well pumps will be running at max flow, supplying the use in the city while refilling the tower. When the tower is again full, the probes will signal the solenoid valve to close and also restart the booster pump. If demand on the system is less than 100 GPM, the Cycle Stop Valve on the booster pump will bring the system pressure up to 60 PSI, and both well pumps will be shut off.

During a power out condition, the water in the tower would still be available for emergency use, through the one-way check valve leaving the tower.

This same type set up would work with a ground storage tank instead of a water tower. The only difference being that water for emergency use during a power outage, would need to be pumped from the ground storage tank with a pump running on alternate power. A diesel powered pump or a back up generator for the electric pump could make emergency water from a ground storage tank dependable and much less expensive than an elevated tank.

If chlorination is required, use variable flow chlorine injectors at the discharge of each well pump.

Example with supply coming from a high-pressure supply line:
This type system will also work if the supply water is coming in from a high-pressure line instead of supply wells. A pressure-reducing valve on the high-pressure line can be turned up to the pressure needed in the city. Normally this higher pressure would overflow the water tower. However, in this case we will be filling the water tower through a solenoid valve. When the tower is full, a level control in the tower will open a switch, which closes the solenoid valve and stops the tower from filling any further. The city is then getting the pressure they need directly off the high-pressure line. The tower is really no longer needed except for times when the power is off. However, we need to keep the water that is in the tower from becoming stale. A small booster pump is attached to the bottom of the tower and once per day this booster pump comes on. A Cycle Stop Valve on this booster pump is set at a pressure slightly higher than the pressure of the high-pressure supply line. The booster pump lowers the level in the tower until a low level probe is reached which opens the solenoid valve to refill the tower. At the same time the low level probe opens the solenoid valve it also turns off the booster pump. This allows the city to again operate directly from the high-pressure supply line. This system will increase the pressure supplied to the city without having to increase the height of the tower. This system also keeps the tower full so if there is a power out condition, you still have a tower full of water that is supplied directly to the city through a one-way check valve. With the power off, you will still have a tower full of water to use but, it will be at a lower pressure which is dependent on the height of the tower.

Reviews / 86 gallon tank replaces 12,000 gallon tank

« on: August 03, 2020, 11:10:50 AM »

A 4" Cycle Stop Valve and an 80 gallon bladder tank to replace a 12,000 gallon hydro pneumatic tank. Several community water systems in Marion County are using Cycle Stop Valves and small bladder tanks to supply "constant pressure" to their customers. These systems are set up to be temporary, while the huge pressure tanks are off line for service and cleaning. However, it should be noticed that the system pressure is much better controlled, and the pump cycling and water hammer events have disappeared after installing the CSV's.

This picture shows the submersible well pump being controlled by a Cycle Stop Valve and an 80 gallon pressure tank. The 12,000 gallon tank that is out of service is pictured in the background.

This picture is of the pressure-recording chart for a week of service. The first 5 days of this chart was with the 12,000 gallon tank, the last two days shows the recorded pressure for the CSV controlled system. In the first 5 days with the big pressure tank, there was 291 cycles. That is 2.38 cycles per hour, 57 cycles per day, or about 21,000 cycles per year. Notice the regular "heartbeat" on the graph as the pump cycles on the big pressure tank. Each "heartbeat" represents a water hammer event that happens throughout the entire system. It also represents considerable abuse on the pump, motor, controls, check valve, and piping system. The system is continually cycling between 53 and 72 PSI. This is also the variation in pressure that all the customers are feeling.

After the installation of the Cycle Stop Valve, notice that the "heartbeat" has completely disappeared. The pressure is maintained very close to a constant 60 PSI. Only a few times during peak demands does the system pressure drop to about 50 PSI. This will eliminate all the abuse usually suffered by the pump, motor, controls, and check valves, that happens with the big pressure tank system. The customers on the system will benefit from the "constant pressure" being supplied while the big pressure tank is out for service.

The operator of these systems said they will be using a CSV full time on some systems that have an even worse cycling problem. Hopefully we will also soon be getting information on the energy use before and after installing the CSV.

Reviews / Western Lakes Estates uses CSV to replace 20,000 gal tank

« on: August 03, 2020, 10:38:34 AM »

Small Water Utilities Companies operate thousands of water systems. The average system has two 10 HP or 15 HP pumps and a 10,000 or 20,000 gallon pressure tank. Because these pumps produce several hundred gallons per minute, and a 10,000 gallon pressure tank only provides about 1200 gallons of draw down, the pumps can cycle 200 to 300 times per day. This cycling is destructive to the pumps, motors, starters, and switches. Cycling also causes water hammer that burst pipelines, wasting tremendous amounts of treated water, as well as the energy used to produce it.

Some of these systems have documented 49% loss of water. Water hammer from pumps cycling can cause thousands of tiny stress fractures, or blow out an entire section of pipe. Thousands of tiny stress fractures waste millions of gallons over time. A main line bursting, waste millions of gallons in a short time. Eliminating water hammer can save tremendous amounts of water and considerable amounts of energy, while reducing pipe line repair costs.

To eliminate the pump cycling, a Cycle Stop Valve was added to each pump. See the pressure recording chart below. The pump cycled on and off 300 times the day before the CSV installation. After the CSV was installed, you can see that the pressure remained at a constant 66 PSI indefinitely. Water hammer was eliminated the minute the CSV was installed. Pipeline breaks are virtually eliminated and considerable head way is being made repairing water lines. A major difference now being, that once the pipeline has been repaired, it stays that way.

After only a few months of service there has been a noticeable reduction in lost revenues. As more of the leaks in the pipeline are found and repaired, less and less water and energy is being wasted.

Frequently Asked Questions / Submersible in a Cistern

« on: May 05, 2020, 07:24:36 AM »

Installing a shroud or flow inducer and using a submersible in a cistern to boost water to the house.

Frequently Asked Questions / Lead in Water

« on: November 07, 2019, 10:49:25 AM »

Solid lead pipes were the norm for hundreds/thousands of years. An oxide patina quickly coats the inside of the pipe and makes it perfectly safe for drinking water. Lead in a faucet is a small problem because the water is not moving, just sitting in the faucet for hours before being needed. You don't have to run the water very long to clear out the little that was in the faucet to have safe drinking water. With the older lead solder in the pipes, you have to run a few gallons to expel what was in the pipes, which doesn't take long. Hot water will cause lead to leach out, but hot water is not usually a concern for drinking. Lead "was" a very important part of plumbing. The word Plumb means lead in Latin I think. Lead makes brass and other metals less expensive, easier to work, and last much longer.

So, why do we think lead in plumbing is so bad? "Someone" in Flint Michigan decided to use a cheaper supply of water for the city. They also decided they didn't need those expensive anti-corrosion or PH modifiers in the new supply of water. The new more caustic supply of water dissolved all the lead oxide patina from the inside of the pipes, then started dissolving the lead itself. But the solid lead pipes that hadn't been a problem in a hundred years took the blame. All of a sudden lead is bad! Blaming the lead pipes takes the focus off what/who really caused the problem, and we are all paying for it. Manufacturers have spent billions redesigning products without lead, and even more money getting "certified lead free and safe". These certifications are mandated by our government officials, the same as the ones who were in control of water quality at Flint. The independent companies the government has picked to do the certifications are raking in the profits. All this cost gets passed right on down to the consumers, who are paying several times more money for plumbing products that last several times less than they should. Switching to plastic just eliminates one of many ways your water quality can still be screwed up by a bureaucracy.

Reviews / Happy Camper even though Driller went Negative

« on: January 11, 2019, 08:20:47 AM »

I have a new home with a new irrigations system. The Irrigation system has 13 zone with 6 heads on each zone at a total of 18 gpm. I have a close friend that is in the irrigation business that told me that when I had a well drilled to have them install a Cycle Stop Valve.

When I contracted with a well driller for a new well and I asked him about the Cycle Stop Valve he immediately went negative. So I just dropped it. We drilled to 410' and installed a 3hp pump putting out about 30gpm.

After the well was installed and the irrigation system was on, the pump
would cycle on and off about every 4 or 5 minutes. This would go on for 4½ hours every morning. Common sense told me this was going to cause premature failure of the submersible pump.

So against my drillers advise, I installed the CSV125-3. Now the pump comes on at 40psi, pumps up to 50psi and stays there the entire time that the irrigation system is running. Once the irrigation system turns off, the pressure goes to 60psi and the pump shuts off.

*Everything works just like your website said it would. *

*I am a very happy camper.*

Thanks

Warren Ducote

Montgomery, Texas

Frequently Asked Questions / NSF certification

« on: August 16, 2018, 01:42:53 PM »

Like most other things in California, it is a political decision, not a rational one. You could grind an entire CSV into powder and dissolve it into the amount of water it would pass over it's lifetime, and I would let my grand kids drink it all day long everyday of their lives. In reality there might be a teaspoon worth of material wash off that valve over it's life span. That prop 65 thing the Californians started is costing the entire world billions of dollars. They actually have to grind up small parts from our valves into powder and dissolve it in acid to see what the components are made of. None of that material comes off the valve and gets into the water under normal use.

The CSV3B is NSF372, which means no lead. But they won't give us the NSF61G because the rubber diaphragm has some Sulfur in it. Again, lead, Sulfur, or anything else the valve is made of does not get ground down and dissolved into the water under any condition.

Our grand parents lived to be 90-100 years old drinking water from pure leaded brass pumps, and even solid lead pipes like in Flint Michigan. Lead is an important part of many metals, and they are inferior without the lead in them. Even the solid lead pipe in Flint was never a problem for 100 years until some government employee decided to change the water supply to an acidic source. The acidic water dissolved the patina on the lead pipes, and it was actually the lead oxidized patina that caused the problems, not the lead pipes. The only thing those NSF certifications did was to make the company NSF rich, and to reduce the quality and increase the price of everything the American pubic purchases.

Frequently Asked Questions / Another VFD is best argument

« on: March 03, 2018, 10:56:30 AM »

Hey Cary, I'm a new guy to the forum and am going to be installing a well pump on my property in the next month or so and have taken an interest in your CSV's. I've been trying to comb through the forums and website to try and get as much details on it as I could but decided to just ask you about it personally. I only have a couple local pump guys that I could have install my pump for me, and both of them pushed pretty hard about installing a VFD. The problem is their quotes were a lot steeper than I wanted to pay and discovered they had the VFD's at MSRP price after I found the same ones on my own online for $600-$700 cheaper. So they pissed me off and needless to say I've decided I'm going to just install the pump myself. I work in the power generation industry and discussed installing a CSV instead of going with a VFD with some mechanics I work with because i'm trying to save money, and don't have a good knack for electrical work. After discussing it with them they are under the impression that a CSV will be hard on the pump from excessive back pressure, whether it is blowing seals or ruining the bearings. I have a general understanding of how pumps work and that if you stay within the manufacturers pump curve then you shouldn't be damaging a pump, so I guess my question is could you explain to me why the CSV isn't hard on the pump even though it is throttling the discharge of the pump whenever there is a low flow demand? This is both for my own knowledge and to have some ammunition on why my co workers shouldn't have wasted their money on VFD's. Thanks for any info.

Hello
You are exactly right! They are MADE to pump against a restriction. If there was no restriction, you wouldn't need a pump to start with. I will attach a pump curve you can print out to show them. A curve shows what a pump is designed to do at different amounts of "restriction". Any pump will produce less GPM in a deep well (more restriction) and more GPM in a shallower well (less restriction).

The attached curve shows a 2HP pump at 28 GPM, with a 1.2 service factor it is pulling a 2.3HP load with only 200' (86 PSI) restriction. But when you restrict it further to 320' of head (138 PSI) it is only pumping 2 GPM and only drawing 0.8HP load. That is just the way pumps work. There is a BIG myth-understanding about this. Everybody thinks restricting a pump makes it work harder, when just the opposite is true.

That pump producing 28 GPM thinks it is in a 200' deep well and draws up to the maximum service factor load, which is 13.8 amps. But when you restrict it more and make it think it is in a 320' deep well, it can only produce 2 GPM and only drawing 0.8HP load, which is about 5 amps. The maximum amps or heat that motor can handle is 13.8 amps, so when it is only drawing 5.0 amps, it is just loping along, running cooler, needed less flow for cooling, and will ultimately last longer because of it. Not to mention that the restriction from the CSV is what keeps the pump from producing more water than is being used, which is how it eliminates the cycling.

Running cooler at reduced amps and eliminating the cycling will make this pump last several times MORE than it was designed to do, not shorten its life in anyway.

The only restriction that will hurt a pump is one that make the water heat up. And since the CSV can never completely close, that cannot happen. As a matter of fact the minimum flow built into the CSV (1 GPM) is designed to be several times more than the pump actually needs to stay cool anyway. It just takes very little cool water to keep a motor/pump happy when it is only drawing 40-50% of max amps and not actually producing any heat.

I was doing VFD's 30+ years ago when I figured this out. A VFD is just trying to trick a pump into doing something it already does naturally.

Hope this helps.

Thanks
Cary

Reviews / 8 Years with No Problems

« on: August 09, 2017, 10:19:27 AM »

8 years in service with no problems. Two 3HP, one 5HP centrifugal pumps. One 10HP submersible with 3” Cycle Stop Valve, and one 5HP with 2” Cycle Stop Valve. 5 Cycle Stop Valves total on this system. Can’t imagine how much it would cost to try and keep VFD’s working on a system like this.
Gary Kirkham

Reviews / Against the Well Drillers Advice

« on: July 05, 2017, 02:45:07 PM »

Pictures and Cad drawings of pump systems / CSV Minimum Flow Chart

« on: June 08, 2017, 12:23:15 PM »

Minimum flow rate through Cycle Stop Valves at various differential pressures.