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Messages - Cary Austin

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Valve Tech / Re: CSV1A unknown issue
« on: February 05, 2024, 06:52:30 AM »
Please call if you haven't done so already.  Sounds like something is not right.  806 885 4445

Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: January 04, 2024, 08:32:45 PM »
Here if you need help or have more questions.

Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: January 04, 2024, 03:24:51 PM »
"152.76psi Pump Pressure (@25gpm) - 43.35psi Riser Head Pressure (100ft) - 7.97psi Riser Friction loss (1-1/4" ID @25gpm) - 31.81psi CSV DP(@25gpm) = 70psi CSV Outlet Pressure"

OK, I take it from the above statement that the "riser head" is the depth to water in the well.  I also assume from the 25JS3S4 model number and the graph showing zero flow at 500' of head that this is the 3HP version?  I will attach a curve.

If you are using 25 GPM that pump can produce 350' of head.  Since it is 100' to water in the well, the CSV at the surface will see 250' of head or a back pressure of 108 PSI.  Because the pump can build 108 PSI you can loose 38 PSI to friction loss and still have 70 PSI outlet of the CSV.  However, with the CSV1A set at 70 PSI while using 3 GPM, the 15 PSI reduced pressure at 25 GPM will cause only 55 PSI to come out of the CSV1A.  You can adjust the CSV1A up to make up for the reduced pressure falloff, but not the friction loss.  By setting the CSV1A at 85 PSI while using 3 GPM and a 75/95 pressure switch setting, it will deliver 70 PSI out let at 25 GPM while the inlet side of the CSV is at 108 PSI from the friction loss.

Next thing is if that is a 3HP pump it really needs a minimum of 3 GPM to stay cool.  The regular CSV1A as a 1 GPM minimum for 2HP and smaller motors.  We can make it into a CSV1A-3GPM, which will have a 3 GPM minimum to keep the motor cool, which is also the rate of tank fill after all taps are closed.  At 3 GPM that pump builds 500' of head, which is the same as 216 PSI.  216 PSI would then be the max pressure the pipe in the well will see.  But you would loose 43 PSI of that as the water travels up the 100' from the static level in the well.  That means the pipe at the surface before the CSV and the inlet or back pressure to the CSV will be 173 PSI. 

This is all very possible with what you have.  But with that size pump and 100' to water the CSV3A2T would make a lot of difference.  With this 2" valve there would be no reduced pressure fall off and every zone from 3 GPM to the max the pump can produce would be at a constant 70 PSI as that is the setting of the CSV3A2T.  The inlet pressure to this valve would still vary according to how much water is being used.  The inlet pressure to the CSV would be 173 PSI when using 3 GPM and 108 PSI when using 25 GPM.  But there is only 3 PSI of friction loss which will allow you to use larger zones up to about 30 GPM before you start losing any pressure on the outlet of the CSV.

It would be great if you ran it with the CSV1A for a while then switched to the CSV3A2T.  It would be easy to document the difference and night and day to see.  Working less than 15-20 GPM with the CSV1A you are not getting into the maximums for that 1" valve.  But anything higher than 20 GPM is pushing it for the CSV1A.

The CSV3A2T is a 2" valve that uses the CSV1A as the pilot control.  If you do switch it out you will have a spare pilot for the CSV3A2T.  Being pilot operated and a larger 2" valve is what lets the CSV3A2T have so much better flow characteristics than the 1" direct acting CSV1A by itself.

Thanks for making me explain all that as some of this stuff needs to be written down, not just in my head.  Lol.

Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: January 03, 2024, 08:41:07 AM »
I don't understand your "CSV outlet pressure".  With the CSV set at 60 PSI the outlet pressure should always be 60 PSI or less.  How much less depends on friction loss and reduced pressure falloff for the amount of water being used at the time.  With a large enough pump to make up for the friction loss you can push as much as 33 GPM though the CSV1A.  The outlet pressure of the CSV starts at 60 PSI, then is reduced by the reduced pressure falloff amount depending on the flow rate.

As long as the pump doesn't cycle off and you can live with the pressure at the sprinklers the CSV1A is fine.  But all those numbers would be a moot point when using the CSV3A2T as the CSV outlet pressure would be at 60 PSI regardless of the flow rate because there is no reduced pressure falloff.  Then the CSV3A2T is large enough that there is only about 3 PSI of friction loss possible.  Even the CSV12560-1 would work much better with that size pump. 

A CSV that is too small for the pump is like trying to suck a golf ball through a garden hose. It just ain't big enough. Lol!

Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: January 02, 2024, 03:54:04 PM »
29 GPM is really too much for a 1-25 GPM CSV1A.  But if the pump is large enough you can squirt that much water through it.  Reduced pressure falloff is how much higher you have to set the CSV pressure at 3 GPM flow to get what you want at 29 GPM flow.  With 30 PSI of falloff the CSV would need to be set at 90 PSI (using a 80/100 pressure switch) to get 60 PSI at 29 GPM flow for the big zones.  There will also be more than 30 PSI friction loss, which means the pump must be able to do 29 GPM at 90 PSI to get 29 GPM at 60 PSI out of the CSV1A.

The CSV125 or the CSV3A2T would be much better for a 29 GPM zone/pump as they do not have reduced pressure falloff, and are larger valves with much less friction loss at 29 GPM flow.

If you can split up the zones and make them all smaller than 20 GPM the CSV1A will work fine.

Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: January 02, 2024, 09:11:22 AM »
With a 60/80 pressure switch setting the CSV can be set to maintain 70 PSI constant.  That decreases the differential pressure to about 125 PSI, which is perfect for the CSV1A.

Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: December 31, 2023, 11:09:54 AM »
Looks correct. So, even with a 50' water level and a back pressure of 195 PSI, setting the CSV for 50 PSI leaves 145 PSI differential pressure.  150 PSI is max differential we recommend for the CSV1A, so setting it higher decreases the differential and gives you more pressure at the sprinklers.

Frequently Asked Questions / Re: System overhaul recommendations/advice
« on: November 06, 2023, 12:52:56 PM »
The highest pressure shallow well jet pump I know of is the J15S, which will build 83 PSI max and work with a 50/70 switch and a CSV setting of 65 PSI.

To get up to 60/80 with the CSV set for 70-75 PSI you will need a multi-stage centrifugal or a submersible.  Here is a multi-stage.

If you drop in a submersible you can use a pump like this for a fraction of the price.

Any of them will work with CSV or the PK1A kit.  But to go 50/70 pressure or higher I would recommend the heavy duty pressure switch and the 10 gallon size tank.  Even with the heavy duty switch you can still turn it down as low as 30/50 if needed.

Frequently Asked Questions / Re: System overhaul recommendations/advice
« on: November 04, 2023, 12:17:18 PM »
That pump builds a max pressure of 67 PSI.  That means the highest you can run the pressure switch is about 35/55 with the CSV set for a constant 45 PSI.  The constant 45 from the CSV will make it seem much stronger than when cycling on at 35 and off at 55. 

There must be a check valve.  It is probably on the suction line to the storage tank.  Filters cost you pressure.  Don't filter unless you have to.  You can do it.  The PK1A is easy to install.

I have seen dramatic increases with steel casing.  PVC not so much.  But the brushing and bailing only cleans up the perforations so what water is there can get in.  If the water isn't there it won't help much.

I could have swore I answered this.  I hate getting old.  Sorry. 

Brushing and bailing will usually help, especially with steel casing.  Most counties would consider 1.25 GPM a dry well.

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?
« on: September 19, 2023, 08:06:43 PM »
The tank is certainly bad. Look at the PK125.

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: PSI drop -- is this normal?
« on: September 19, 2023, 04:16:50 PM »
Yes. Sorry. Lol

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: PSI drop -- is this normal?
« on: September 19, 2023, 01:36:25 PM »
The CSV1A itself has 5 PSI of reduced pressure falloff at 10 GPM.  So, when using 10 GPM you will have 5 PSI less than when using 2 GPM. 

Also, the lower the water level in the well, the less pressure your pump can produce by 1 PSI for every 2.31' it drops.  So, as the water level in the well drops by 23', the pump produces 10 PSI less pressure.  Conversely, as the water level rises in the well the pressure increases by the same amount.

You can turn up the CSV and pressure switch by 5 PSI to make up foe reduced pressure fall off.  But you need a larger pump to make up for a decreasing water level.  However, the water level can only decrease by so much as it is a low producing well, and it is probably a good thing that the flow and pressure drop off as the well is pumped down.

Pumps, Wells, Tanks, Controls / Re: Formula for pump math?
« on: September 19, 2023, 01:27:41 PM »
"it runs 2 or 3 seconds each time and has things back up to 60psi."

This makes me think you have a different problem.  The cycling I am talking about happens as the tank fills to 60 and drains to 40 PSI.  If the tank is bad and has no air charge, it changes from 40 to 60 every few seconds as the pump cycles on and off quickly.

What you just said makes me thing the pump is not reaching 60 until the pump has cycled on about 3 times.  That would be the overload in the motor tripping, and resetting after cooling off for a minute or so.

A Cycle Stop Valve can help when the pressure is going from 40 to 60 over and over, but it can't help at all unless the motor is operating properly and not tripping the overload. 

A CSV125 in the well needs to go as high up as possible.  Just a couple feet below the pitless is best.  The lower in the well the CSV is installed, the lower the pressure it delivers by 1 PSI for every 2.31'.

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