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Valve Tech / Re: Detailed dimensions of all o-rings in the CSV1A valve
« on: July 17, 2024, 04:57:18 PM »
Sorry. Couple of machines down so we all hands on deck until back on line. Try not to forget.
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Valve Tech / Re: Detailed dimensions of all o-rings in the CSV1A valve
« on: July 10, 2024, 01:07:55 PM »
Here is a link to the parts break down. Have to get my tech guy to find o-ring sizes.
https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/csv1a-parts-breakdown
https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/csv1a-parts-breakdown
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Valve Tech / Re: Detailed dimensions of all o-rings in the CSV1A valve
« on: July 09, 2024, 07:08:16 PM »
Sorry for your problem. But that is the first time in 30+ years that an o-ring has been the cause of a CSV failure. Like you saw it smashed in when it was too big, it is squeezed into a slot and should nor be able to move, break, or get out in anyway. We buy them from a local bearing and seal company right off the shelf. See if I can look it up. But would have been posted years ago if there had been a problem.
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Applications / Re: In well csv
« on: June 27, 2024, 03:50:57 PM »
The 10SQ05-160 can only make about 95 PSI max. If it is really 40' down to water don't set the pressure switch any higher than 40/60, as that is about all the pump can do.
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Frequently Asked Questions / Re: Will any existing well pump work with a CSV or do I need a special pump?
« on: June 26, 2024, 12:36:32 PM »
The CSV was designed to work with a standard full speed pump to replace those expensive, troublesome, and short lived VFD or variable speed drives. Actually most variable frequency controls also work with a standard pump. There is really nothing different about the pumps. Just the expensive VFD controller makes a good pump give troubles and not last very long.
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Valve Tech / Re: Adding more pressure to current installed cycle stop valve
« on: June 01, 2024, 05:33:22 PM »
Turn the pressure switch up first. With switch shutting off at 80 you can just tighten CSV adjustment until it holds 70.
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Valve Tech / Re: Question on our CSV1A
« on: May 07, 2024, 06:52:45 AM »
Glad you are happy again. Didn't think the bolt would work loose on its own, but will recommend tightening the jam nut from now on. Thanks.
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Valve Tech / Re: Question on our CSV1A
« on: May 05, 2024, 08:41:11 AM »
never seen a spring lose tension over time unless they get rusty or break. At least for 30 years as the ones I set 30 years ago have never needed readjustment. However, if the diaphragm tears or leaks and the spring gets wet, it can lose tension and/or break. But normally you would notice water leaking from around the adjustment bolt and the CSV no longer functioning long before the spring got rusty or broke.
Even a slight change in pump performance should have no effect on the CSV setting. It is just not normal for the setting of the CSV to change unless someone messes with the bolt. Without the jam nut tight, just a slight bump on the adjustment bolt can make a big change as one full turn is like 14 PSI difference.
Sorry for your problem, but I don't think there is anything to fix. If it changes again let me know and we will do whatever we can to remedy the issue.
Even a slight change in pump performance should have no effect on the CSV setting. It is just not normal for the setting of the CSV to change unless someone messes with the bolt. Without the jam nut tight, just a slight bump on the adjustment bolt can make a big change as one full turn is like 14 PSI difference.
Sorry for your problem, but I don't think there is anything to fix. If it changes again let me know and we will do whatever we can to remedy the issue.
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Valve Tech / Re: Question on our CSV1A
« on: May 05, 2024, 07:43:38 AM »
Sounds like the gauge is accurate. Bolt should not loosen on its own. But not having jam nut tight makes it easy for someone to mess with. If that is not the case the pump performance may have decreased a little. Spring would be only thing affecting set pressure as guts of valve either close or not If valve fails. CSV fails,; pump cycles on/off not low pressure
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Valve Tech / Re: Question on our CSV1A
« on: May 05, 2024, 06:27:25 AM »
Valve set pressure should never change. Check the pressure gauge.
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Valve Tech / Re: CSV1A unknown issue
« on: February 05, 2024, 06:52:30 AM »
Please call if you haven't done so already. Sounds like something is not right. 806 885 4445
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Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: January 04, 2024, 08:32:45 PM »
Here if you need help or have more questions.
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Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: January 04, 2024, 03:24:51 PM »
"152.76psi Pump Pressure (@25gpm) - 43.35psi Riser Head Pressure (100ft) - 7.97psi Riser Friction loss (1-1/4" ID @25gpm) - 31.81psi CSV DP(@25gpm) = 70psi CSV Outlet Pressure"
OK, I take it from the above statement that the "riser head" is the depth to water in the well. I also assume from the 25JS3S4 model number and the graph showing zero flow at 500' of head that this is the 3HP version? I will attach a curve.
If you are using 25 GPM that pump can produce 350' of head. Since it is 100' to water in the well, the CSV at the surface will see 250' of head or a back pressure of 108 PSI. Because the pump can build 108 PSI you can loose 38 PSI to friction loss and still have 70 PSI outlet of the CSV. However, with the CSV1A set at 70 PSI while using 3 GPM, the 15 PSI reduced pressure at 25 GPM will cause only 55 PSI to come out of the CSV1A. You can adjust the CSV1A up to make up for the reduced pressure falloff, but not the friction loss. By setting the CSV1A at 85 PSI while using 3 GPM and a 75/95 pressure switch setting, it will deliver 70 PSI out let at 25 GPM while the inlet side of the CSV is at 108 PSI from the friction loss.
Next thing is if that is a 3HP pump it really needs a minimum of 3 GPM to stay cool. The regular CSV1A as a 1 GPM minimum for 2HP and smaller motors. We can make it into a CSV1A-3GPM, which will have a 3 GPM minimum to keep the motor cool, which is also the rate of tank fill after all taps are closed. At 3 GPM that pump builds 500' of head, which is the same as 216 PSI. 216 PSI would then be the max pressure the pipe in the well will see. But you would loose 43 PSI of that as the water travels up the 100' from the static level in the well. That means the pipe at the surface before the CSV and the inlet or back pressure to the CSV will be 173 PSI.
This is all very possible with what you have. But with that size pump and 100' to water the CSV3A2T would make a lot of difference. With this 2" valve there would be no reduced pressure fall off and every zone from 3 GPM to the max the pump can produce would be at a constant 70 PSI as that is the setting of the CSV3A2T. The inlet pressure to this valve would still vary according to how much water is being used. The inlet pressure to the CSV would be 173 PSI when using 3 GPM and 108 PSI when using 25 GPM. But there is only 3 PSI of friction loss which will allow you to use larger zones up to about 30 GPM before you start losing any pressure on the outlet of the CSV.
It would be great if you ran it with the CSV1A for a while then switched to the CSV3A2T. It would be easy to document the difference and night and day to see. Working less than 15-20 GPM with the CSV1A you are not getting into the maximums for that 1" valve. But anything higher than 20 GPM is pushing it for the CSV1A.
The CSV3A2T is a 2" valve that uses the CSV1A as the pilot control. If you do switch it out you will have a spare pilot for the CSV3A2T. Being pilot operated and a larger 2" valve is what lets the CSV3A2T have so much better flow characteristics than the 1" direct acting CSV1A by itself.
Thanks for making me explain all that as some of this stuff needs to be written down, not just in my head. Lol.
OK, I take it from the above statement that the "riser head" is the depth to water in the well. I also assume from the 25JS3S4 model number and the graph showing zero flow at 500' of head that this is the 3HP version? I will attach a curve.
If you are using 25 GPM that pump can produce 350' of head. Since it is 100' to water in the well, the CSV at the surface will see 250' of head or a back pressure of 108 PSI. Because the pump can build 108 PSI you can loose 38 PSI to friction loss and still have 70 PSI outlet of the CSV. However, with the CSV1A set at 70 PSI while using 3 GPM, the 15 PSI reduced pressure at 25 GPM will cause only 55 PSI to come out of the CSV1A. You can adjust the CSV1A up to make up for the reduced pressure falloff, but not the friction loss. By setting the CSV1A at 85 PSI while using 3 GPM and a 75/95 pressure switch setting, it will deliver 70 PSI out let at 25 GPM while the inlet side of the CSV is at 108 PSI from the friction loss.
Next thing is if that is a 3HP pump it really needs a minimum of 3 GPM to stay cool. The regular CSV1A as a 1 GPM minimum for 2HP and smaller motors. We can make it into a CSV1A-3GPM, which will have a 3 GPM minimum to keep the motor cool, which is also the rate of tank fill after all taps are closed. At 3 GPM that pump builds 500' of head, which is the same as 216 PSI. 216 PSI would then be the max pressure the pipe in the well will see. But you would loose 43 PSI of that as the water travels up the 100' from the static level in the well. That means the pipe at the surface before the CSV and the inlet or back pressure to the CSV will be 173 PSI.
This is all very possible with what you have. But with that size pump and 100' to water the CSV3A2T would make a lot of difference. With this 2" valve there would be no reduced pressure fall off and every zone from 3 GPM to the max the pump can produce would be at a constant 70 PSI as that is the setting of the CSV3A2T. The inlet pressure to this valve would still vary according to how much water is being used. The inlet pressure to the CSV would be 173 PSI when using 3 GPM and 108 PSI when using 25 GPM. But there is only 3 PSI of friction loss which will allow you to use larger zones up to about 30 GPM before you start losing any pressure on the outlet of the CSV.
It would be great if you ran it with the CSV1A for a while then switched to the CSV3A2T. It would be easy to document the difference and night and day to see. Working less than 15-20 GPM with the CSV1A you are not getting into the maximums for that 1" valve. But anything higher than 20 GPM is pushing it for the CSV1A.
The CSV3A2T is a 2" valve that uses the CSV1A as the pilot control. If you do switch it out you will have a spare pilot for the CSV3A2T. Being pilot operated and a larger 2" valve is what lets the CSV3A2T have so much better flow characteristics than the 1" direct acting CSV1A by itself.
Thanks for making me explain all that as some of this stuff needs to be written down, not just in my head. Lol.
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Irrigation / Re: Large Irrigation system
« on: January 03, 2024, 08:41:07 AM »
I don't understand your "CSV outlet pressure". With the CSV set at 60 PSI the outlet pressure should always be 60 PSI or less. How much less depends on friction loss and reduced pressure falloff for the amount of water being used at the time. With a large enough pump to make up for the friction loss you can push as much as 33 GPM though the CSV1A. The outlet pressure of the CSV starts at 60 PSI, then is reduced by the reduced pressure falloff amount depending on the flow rate.
As long as the pump doesn't cycle off and you can live with the pressure at the sprinklers the CSV1A is fine. But all those numbers would be a moot point when using the CSV3A2T as the CSV outlet pressure would be at 60 PSI regardless of the flow rate because there is no reduced pressure falloff. Then the CSV3A2T is large enough that there is only about 3 PSI of friction loss possible. Even the CSV12560-1 would work much better with that size pump.
A CSV that is too small for the pump is like trying to suck a golf ball through a garden hose. It just ain't big enough. Lol!
As long as the pump doesn't cycle off and you can live with the pressure at the sprinklers the CSV1A is fine. But all those numbers would be a moot point when using the CSV3A2T as the CSV outlet pressure would be at 60 PSI regardless of the flow rate because there is no reduced pressure falloff. Then the CSV3A2T is large enough that there is only about 3 PSI of friction loss possible. Even the CSV12560-1 would work much better with that size pump.
A CSV that is too small for the pump is like trying to suck a golf ball through a garden hose. It just ain't big enough. Lol!